Aug 4, 2014|
Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
-- a way it's Larry hunter. News radio 930 WB EN. Welcome back nice to have you with us on this -- Monday -- going on this week including the Erie county fair starting -- we've got brand new business coming to town opening up on Thursday Cabela's the -- outdoors store and we've got some nice weather today -- little hazy sunshine but at least. The rain has moved out of the area for 24 hours or or sell a lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court. There was a judge ruling -- just a couple of months ago that declared teacher tenure in California. Violates students' civil rights to equality education. Last week the second. Lawsuit was filed in New York State concerning teacher tenure. It was filed by an organization called partnership for educational justice. It's headed by CNN former CNN journalists Campbell Brown. And it has seven different plaintiffs families. In the lawsuit. The first lawsuit was brought by in New York City parents union and filed in Staten Island Supreme Court. And of course it is possible that the two lawsuits and may eventually. A become. Combined the complaint does not name the allegedly incompetent teachers. But -- argues that tenure laws lead to bad teachers and claims support and claims are supported it. By research. So we are discussing this morning teacher ten year. And whether. Protecting teachers from losing their job protecting incompetent teachers. Is benefiting students today and we will go back to the phones and let's see the person who has been holding along this that would be Larry in buffalo hi Larry. But I don't. You know my issue you know you always -- that the the reason for ten years so they don't get rid of quality teachers to the politics or whatever. But you know these tenure -- they waved back probably go for the union's Ford Department of Labor and national -- you know relations board thing. And so -- Teachers have all these additional protections. Now that they didn't have fifty or sixty years ago. You know I -- I think they're just crying about it through now I'm gonna get rid of a yeah I'd like to see somebody get rid of a union employees anywhere. Whether the Ford plant drawer a teacher so that argument doesn't hold water at all. Did you I have a public school education Larry. Okay and where there are some teachers that you felt though looking back on things were incompetent. You know you you know they would -- -- I remember you don't even have to write sentences they were looking for a specific word. And because -- -- he didn't want him examined it had secured the right word in the sentence. So that's my sentence structure terrible. My paragraph structure it's terrible because they never took the time because they had that just churned through all these past -- could have. You know extra time I guess. But I remember having. Giuliani a Catholic school fifty or sixty kids in a class it was amazing and had one teacher doing at all. You know that dedication. And you know the other thing you always sit well with a better teachers would do better well they don't talk about starting pay but he never talked about the ending pay. So you know if you have a third grade teacher want to be making 70000 and the other one could be making 35. And doing the exact -- -- somebody should take that -- the court. There's Bennis saying going around I've I've heard from teachers for years a little tongue in cheek saints so I'm I'm not. Trying to insinuate anything here but I've heard some teachers say that they. Absolutely loved their job especially in July and August. And you know another thing I want to -- you know I -- the teacher wants to hear you know I'll give on this point here. A senior. Teacher will get ten year for example that there are a biology teacher. They have to work and collapse for two years or three years outside the education system to bring reality into the classroom. You know I think they would -- business teacher or you know a math teacher working in some kind of statistical place. Or you know or wherever. But I biochemist have to work and chemistry area and so principality you should get tenure in that they had an additional. Working knowledge because there's stones are gonna wind up in that position. And they could I think better -- or -- about what real life. There's like it opposes. The you know material there. Our Larry appreciate your calls -- it thank you 8030930. Is our number at WB Ian start lying thirtieth recall and yourself. -- to the city of buffalo we welcome -- to the program this morning good morning -- Good morning. Little background on myself I am I started teaching in 1960. I -- re tired but I still substitute teach. And I totally agree you can and I guess I agree with us when I was teaching. -- line is that a -- -- -- can I just quickly interject what did you teach. I terrible elementary and middle school all. And that ain't on many different grade levels and I did. -- meters there remedial work as well I actually work. So I got to feel a lot of what was going. I always -- ten years good but it should be renewable. All OK I've never looked it up from that perspective but I IC where you're coming from your share. I've seen too many teachers. Get -- three years then where their butts off to get their job. And then after that things go downhill. If they know that at the end of say five years. And they could be gone. Or even -- -- was renewable every three years I mean. I always do my job was never going to be threatened if they instituted it because I worked my butt off all the time. I also disagree with best scholar of the what previous to this one. Inspires people moving into the community and which taking -- I never did. Yeah I -- well I mean how far away can you live from where you teach you may not live in I mean you could live in west Seneca and and teach in Orchard Park -- I don't have any problems would would that. I don't think you have to live in the city of buffalo to be a good teacher in the city of buffalo but. I mean obviously you're gonna live nearby. Where where you'd teach so I mean you are part of the community is the general vicinity. Yeah I I I think you know that the fact that you may not. Live in Williams bill although you teach in Williams -- so why. A friend who was not enough. To anchor it -- and -- Like. The immediate and watch that. I agree with -- and others tree years ten years is that necessarily a good thing because it does it mean. And that every -- act that was wonderful teachers. I felt it was -- little dogs that I. But it was -- district to watched. Gala I wanna ask a couple other questions but I got to take a break which you stayed -- -- which John Holden and bring him back. All right thank you very much stick right there and if you'd like to get on with us as well you can join us at 8030930. -- 930 -- -- call on -- -- I got a couple of tickets here. I got 21 day admission tickets to America's great country wine festival it's this Saturday and Sunday August the ninth and tenth. At they should talk what county fairgrounds fifty dollar value and you must be at least 21 years of age. General contest rules apply if you would like to tickets. To be America's great country wine festival this weekend he can give us -- call 6449875. And we will take caller number. Well we did six before so why not do caller lucky number 70 okay. Caller number 76449875. If you like two tickets to America's great country wine festival this weekend. At the should talk what county fairgrounds wanna bring that -- back on the air whether as she is a former teacher. And -- we had to clarify an earlier and a former administrator. Who talked about observing teachers in and deciding whether or not after three years they should get to a ten year or not. And one of my concerns is that. I would like to see where students possibly have more of let's say. Into how effective a teacher may have been as opposed to just administrators what are your thoughts on asking students their thoughts on teachers. I heard you talking about -- earlier when I was in my car. And I think that's actually not such a bad idea I think even to hands. Felt more parent input would be a good idea also a young. Because they know what's going on better with their children and we don't. And are you were talking about a ten year on a renewable basis and I had never. Thought of that idea and I a year. And off the top of my head high I kinda like the idea what -- saying is. After right now what is a three year process for teachers in the public school system to achieve tenure. That once you achieve that. It's not a permanent tenure -- has to be a renewable process every. Say 34 or or five years have you discussed that at all with other teachers. I I have of course a lot of them disagree with -- because they like the idea of giving their. Well they're -- protected and and at the neighbors that are former teachers and hand the husband of particular vocal -- -- vocal about disagree with me but. I think to be -- accused students parents and everybody in the education system. That. In order to make sure that people are staying on their toes and doing their jobs it's expected of them. If they lead in the back here my -- I can't let down. You know we in some of my research here and and looking at articles concerning these lawsuits. We have parents claiming. That the teachers have if called their children's name like -- a loser. That 01 teacher basically didn't want to assign homework because then. The teacher herself would have to do. Extra work. Where 121 teacher was having the teachers' aides. Present. The class. And while the teacher basically just set in in a rocking chair I mean these. These have to be concerns whether it's happening to your child or not the fact that tax dollars. Are paying for things like this to happen are wrong. I I totally agree if you like I like it'll look Pletcher -- date apparently something and they're articulate clean air coverage to all the pictures of children we're doing everything -- And -- both of the kinds of things that that I did observe and it was at my gap could be an observer so of course I kept my mouth shut but down. And -- at the number of observations that are performed. What you're tenured. I believe unless things have changed since I retired. You hit a formal occupation once a year. You -- and -- knew what was going to be done. I always said they had when you put on your dog and pony show I preferred it in the days. When the administrator which is trapped in my room. Yup I never felt threatened I only knew that what I was doing was appropriate. And I didn't feel like I can't put them at special -- Do. Good teachers. Noll who would be incompetent teachers are. Well. Yeah I mean I knew who was doing it -- Japanese who wasn't. And and I'll play as the other thing when you received students from -- teachers the next year. You know which ones came from which I answer without even looking at their records. While that's a good point I never even considered that but. Yet if you're allowing incompetent teachers to teach and then you get their students the next year. It does affect your ability to help the students catch up to where they should be while. -- that's a great point Gail thank you for bringing -- the high tension. I never thought of that certain. That there's been a much more to it and that they -- -- -- them just get complacent. I mean I hit one. Teacher. But who used that same plot and -- here and and year out. You know than it was the 45 day at school. Because he was teaching the same -- and he did last year. -- I really appreciate your time this morning thank you for your honesty. Well you're welcome. -- look at that. Thank you 803 on 930 is our number at WB and Jason you've been holding a while I appreciate your patience. I. Although I did I didn't armor article and I graduated. Two years ago. And so. One. I think was principal from Rochester. -- -- that -- confident and are currently sits on the watched last. All the better teachers out there like there are some good teachers that actually keep working after that it's -- here. Those pork futures they can just heard that one did it because it all out and our -- are. They can just be a great teacher one day and then they're also not an issue. I just think that the account program. Just like I don't know it makes them to say. I think like with the Japanese -- able to get fired. Are relatively quickly it probably couldn't be more on your hosts. Which I'm sure it's like for example you know if you don't -- -- certain rating or a point that. They could replace you so you try to work harder so that you. -- -- job it and I think that's what he and a public school district so does that drive that try to keep her job so. You want cheeseburger. And I think they'll to help overall. Thank you Jason appreciate your time this morning I'm WB and it's it's a matter of taking pride in in your work. There -- really is it's a matter of taking pride in your job. And seen positive results from the students you work with the story of a teenager named -- In the eighth grade at Nathaniel Rochester community school in Rochester -- wrote an essay recently. Comparing the lack of education she was receiving at her school to modern slavery. And instead of using her perspective as a teachable moment for teachers ended up bullying her. And of course nothing happened to the teachers tenure do you think it's right for New York State. You're hearing the voice of buffalo WDN. That call us now an 8030930. Cell calls are free and star nine during their toll free line is 1806169236. The last couple of months a couple of lawsuits have been filed in new York State Supreme Court concerning teacher tenure. A number of families including two families out of Rochester are claiming that teacher ten year. It benefits the teachers but does not benefit the students that teachers have rights but students don't. And it's hurting our public education system we're taking your thoughts and comments this morning on the sandy beach show would Larry -- And we will go to. Who. To do due to. Fred Fred Fred in Orchard Park -- morning for a. Good morning. Very interesting I was sample size -- Europe many years those loose ties apparently coordinator. And these guys -- -- our proprietary trades. Against unfortunate. Some very poor teachers. I was actually union president. And as union president yeah I had to protect the rights of our teachers. But on the other hand. It's a teacher was not good. I wanted to help. Eliminate them -- the profession is just not good for us. And I was involved in it as well. The problem lose suggest at least two day long. If you really love hate toward teachers everybody knows. I think one year previous callers did hoosiers know who's doing the Japanese who aren't and who -- And it takes two years. Perhaps over a 100000 dollars. Constant. I was -- to try to your mediate to help these people. That's part of the law -- -- I was very -- -- -- -- -- I observed a teacher every day at least for one period. Took time out of night date due to do this. And we were able weekly meeting with the principal. And battery you know principles are involved in the best and certainly your principles -- the greatest teachers either. -- we used to kid around solos so you know if you can't teach you go under the administration. Educated but it is still illegal in the teaching teenagers and college. Let them. That does tend to be his -- true statement at times. I would agree. As a president of a union I'd try to negotiate. Eighty. Eight different form of evaluation. -- form that would have been involved teachers evaluate other teachers. A long lists eighty. Along with the members -- is that the administration in over the board. And the problem was we could never hit eight. Assurance that we could never get an agreement. It would make up this group. They -- to use is probably better yeah at this. This just ten years all of that we can't. Because it's local and your people that are. There are more acquainted with the case. Can evaluate. At a date certain teachers know. And we hit it leading -- people from the department and you know good assortment of you're step could be that would be on this -- and -- -- that administrators. I was very -- it could work but we could never -- I would support. Fred a previous caller who was an educator as well. Made an interest dean's suggestion. And that is when it comes to ten years that it's a renewable ten years say every 34 or five years that you don't get tenure for life. That's a possibility. -- immediately -- I noticed right trapped for thirty years. And had. Over the years there -- a few people. That I noticed -- in my department. Is dead after. All right after 1015 years in the job they tend. To be -- less motivated I'd say. And as what are your other cars instead. Use the same lesson over and over and didn't matter really try to invigorate their their lessons at all. And I think that would help. That particular that type of case there were many but there are few -- Underlying after fifteen years as they said. Tends to surely -- left center. The lesson plans and so. And that's not just in the teaching profession that can happen in in any job I mean people can get little lackadaisical. You know we we are human and sometimes we take things a little for granted. Then that's where I I kind of liked her suggestion -- a renewable tenure where we you know make sure that energy level is they're from September through June. Exactly I agree with that. All right Fred I appreciate your comments and an honesty this morning thank you very much for calling. 803 on 930 is our number at WBE and I've got done with us this morning from north tunnel on the good morning -- Hi I'm not an educator is never an educator I'm just educated and I've also never been in the public school in my -- I've really enjoyed listening not on everybody's made especially. Other former teachers who went to couple comments. Well the first thing I have to say as I absolutely shocked beyond belief that anybody would be talking about hang here. And only three years out of school would take you longer become a teacher in three years. So after three years of teaching you may not even wanna be a teacher I mean you might think you might -- teacher made how many of us started in my career and changed. Okay so to get to me I don't I don't care who's come up with a three -- thing that -- just sounds like a way to protect that job we've just collect a paycheck. Because -- your teacher and you're good teacher in any good story about ten years ago I mean begging you take ten year. Now I don't we stop the first and I heard there were ten year I was in college. And -- -- to get to work 1520 years before the tenured teacher and have a lot of success behind you. It was an there was an earned. Honor. I had no idea it was something like that there's been a real real interest in -- for me because I just didn't know it. I've never had a tenured teacher might teachers were all scholars and neighbor is here Ph.D.s or whatever. And there was a ten year. It's in private school. Which which gets rid of a lot of problems first propping up a bad teacher and as the one here -- and everybody every teacher and all the other bad teachers they're gone the following year. Because there's so many complaints from the parent and the student themselves. When you're on -- and a private school wherever he's competing to go to to actually universities we can't waste our time. As students -- lousy teachers because the next year as one of your teachers brilliantly pointed out take you gotta be out of the next level and you gotta be up to par. Okay so I don't understand what the first -- is that what is this three -- thing. I mean what I don't know what you're doing three years if you got -- at school but I mean. Don't most people change careers -- changed hands or whatever I can't imagine anybody wanting to be tenured after three years. Looking up I I was thinking about that went when news started mentioning it and I I'm going back to when I started in broadcasting. And after three years I had worked for. I think two different radio stations at the time. And I I'm thinking. I learned. So much in those three years but I learned so much more in my fourth and fifth -- and six year. As well because the broadcast industry. And news in an entertainment it it was always changing and so is education and the the three year thing is it to me. That's it's just inappropriate to say now you've achieved. It. You your goal after three years and the point you bring up to is that it takes more than three years. To get the education to become a teacher -- to get tenure that that's a great point. -- and I understand and they get I've met people who thought they wanted to be teachers and they did -- -- scene and they did everything inside you know. It's really events for me and because that we from what I've heard about public school teachers they deal with a lot. Between the politics of money and the unity from the parents who don't care if they deal with an awful lot. But I just again I I think that ten year should be on almost an honoraria for a truly great teacher let me just say this. We also need to take into account without a collar and have called in today we need to -- good hard look I'm not from the area so. Remember how poorly our particular school district in and around. Our. And we would be it would behoove us to check out what they do. And then looked -- what did they do what they're bad teachers can cost a 100000 dollars to get rid of import teachers but to the entire. Faculty notes they're bad teacher a -- in a private school like the head master called human and you're not there the next day. So much cleaner it's much quicker and make everybody much happier. But anyway. That said there are people -- at events and here you are a situation with three years in -- tenured and you decide you know what a great teacher anymore but he -- I don't know I mean I don't particularly at the college that they could just -- my resignation what do I do I have no idea but again I would just like what you'd think. About ten year being something that is earned after a more substantial period of time. Yes absolutely I yeah I agree with that with a 100% I think three years although. You can become an excellent teacher in in a short period of time. Who are born excellent teachers -- -- interrupting I mean I can they believe that the and there are people who are. Three years of not enough time to ferret out and you're gonna now here's your perspective they're gonna lock in and -- Eagles are always gonna fly attacked. But the but the ones -- -- picture you know it's three years that's just not enough time. It's not good for the students back to the school system because then then you get a revolving door situation if you get a lot of barely qualified teachers -- decide they don't wanna be teachers at math. -- Donna thank you very much for your time this morning on WB and appreciate your call a quick break on the sandy beach show would Larry hotter it will come back let's go back to the phones and welcome John under the program I jobs. Thank. I'd like to bring up a few things that I come from about 35 years experience and roughly thirty teachers. That are doesn't relatives -- in a local support. I've heard just about every scenario that's possible out there. But there are one point up to summit of the people there are being -- administrators out there. Who intimidate teachers. And the teachers didn't have this tenure some more protection a lot of them would be gone regardless of their qualities and I'll go there. There's also a student intimidation. Which gauges are faced with. Where the student doesn't have an exam. They can go and say well that teacher you know touch me improperly and -- and that teacher -- to try to prove themselves innocent of the situation and never existed. There are some teachers I didn't admit or not. Cut out to be teachers and they should be eliminated. But part of the problem is the most teachers are transferred to other schools rather than the problem being faced by the school system -- We also have a situation other teachers that are jealous of your commander in shake up the system other teachers -- -- here same field. Try to create a -- intimidating you know because they don't want to rock the -- We also have four -- students that's one of Chrysler went. Where an administrator will -- to have a Lawrence students put into one particular teacher's classroom and higher and in another teacher classroom that they like. Union and India the comparison is maybe you'll find that there's a big difference in the grade levels -- -- -- result of the two teachers. And that's because of the arrangement the principal made. They're teachers who gets up to principles and that the teachers who don't and it makes a difference also. And one big and I I do agree with a five year probation thing I think that maybe get better situation. But one situation is still exist I'm really against that's where New York City there are teachers sitting in classrooms. Being paid full salary not teaching because they've been removed from the different schools. And I think that have to be eliminated completely. As and it's ironic as I was I was just going to bring that up after your phone call -- and and I'm I'm glad you did because. Again that we are spending now millions of taxpayers dollars on teachers in New York City who are not teaching or sitting in the classroom. Justice to report. Each day and and things like that seriously are are inappropriate. And a waste of taxpayer dollars and so you bring up a number of points that obviously do need to to be addressed. And you know it's not just ten year. But I I think I I do like gales idea our former caller when she said. If you want to keep ten years that make it -- renewable. And that way we may be able to get rid of the incompetent teachers a little bit quicker. Then giving them the opportunity it is to stay in their position forever thanks for -- call John I appreciate your thoughts and comments. I've got Jim in west Seneca this morning hi Jim thanks for calling. I crate Shelby previous caller hit the nail right on the -- I'm also I'd like to add this in smaller town America or the suburban school -- I try your architecture job. In case the principles on her daughter to the degree where board member did you agree. And they want to let you go to fill that position with someone that they are related -- I'm also I want I want people -- remember. -- now would they not only just the epidemic it's shell and a -- And a lot of parents are remembering -- that the climate of the clips. Okay right back at him currency had nothing else to say so we'll go to nick and buffalo high -- Well look what happened and to -- we would. All I'm sorry okay I I've forests are wrong button and and caused a problem here certain ticket if you're listening. Please give us a quick call back and an -- -- squeegee in here. -- TI apologized for that I hit the button but I guess the -- didn't go through. You know old fingers what what can I say arm. I therefore. If we can't get nick in I I say thank you to all our callers today. And this is a topic that will not go away. And with two lawsuits. That have been brought up now in Supreme Court. It is definitely something of concern. Not just to parents but I think to taxpayers in general. I mean if you have our nick is what is -- let let me see by it's we -- back and nick I apologize for having you cut off like that. No problem to the quick point I don't know what you heard -- a teacher tenure does not necessarily protect -- and something like layoffs due to budget cuts. -- that's -- interest rates seniority it doesn't matter your tenure or not they're cutting petition. You know you could be on -- great teacher now and also -- he then your tenure -- -- Mean that now you're suddenly Don -- reflecting on on on your performance and our state certifications. Require -- even after receiving tenure to continue to receive app development. And to do things to to better ourselves as teacher and you -- all teacher evaluation process. Is built around. Reflecting on what -- your teacher practice and how the Indian crew. So I I don't just don't appreciate that notion a lot about ten years and now I don't have that. Think about anything anymore I can -- -- to work that's not really the culture especially now it's very aggressive. Teacher evaluation system. Our nick thank you for calling back I appreciate your time here at WBM thanks for all our callers you have yourself a great summer date on this Monday and let's see Mike and -- will be in tomorrow the financial guys and I'll come back -- Wednesday morning at 9 o'clock to fill in for sandy beach on news radio 930 WB EN.