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WBEN NewsRadio 930>Audio & Video on Demand>>Ukraine: Frmr FBI Agent Mike Liwicki & Atty. Dianna Derhak

Ukraine: Frmr FBI Agent Mike Liwicki & Atty. Dianna Derhak

Jul 20, 2014|

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It's hard line on news radio 930 WB and for about the next hour. We're going to be talking about the downed Malaysian jetliner in Ukraine. Chances are if you went down Genesee street the Ukrainian community center in buffalo they called that the negro and I think I'm saying that right. You would find a lot of people inside that building that they're certainly concerned about this topic. Chances are one of them would be our next guest and he's got some expertise that is beyond just caring about the Ukrainian community. Mike -- Wiki is here. He's a former supervisory agent in the buffalo office of the FBI. He's a guy who back in 1993. Helped coordinate some of the evidence recovery. And Leo world -- trade center bombing in 93 not not that big 9/11 one but the other one. He's a guy that knows a lot about international investigations. And he's on the line with us today to talk a little bit about what is going on in the Ukraine. Mike thanks for joining us. I'm glad you're here address the investigation. As it's happening now based on what you've seen in other cases similar cases. What's going on. FBI and outside groups aren't on the ground looking at wreckage yet and may not in my right. You're right. My understanding is that political team hair -- -- should be area. And that would involve me. -- in the PR experts. We call them the a year -- he's the emergency response team. I'm probably on their way to work with the organizations such an all epic crash site and wanting to remember is that under federal lob. Most maker airline crashes and our. Approximately 2000 of them a year. Are under the jurisdiction of the National Transportation Safety Board -- EST. But the end is he has power to designate. To other agencies the ability to do two -- with the investigation and that does happen locally. The United States yet these guys yet yet we'll investigate. Crash it was determined that criminal act has taken place. And and will become the group police -- agency. Making the national transportation security board. An assist. Talk to me about the process of the investigation though. The scene in the sifting through the evidence sure that's aviation related and I'm sure that's also a limited a little bit by access to the scene. Once the FBI gets involved today. Knock on doors they start talking to rebels. Take it beyond the crash scene forming into the rest of the investigation if you. Are. Indeed the that part of the investigation and that type of investigation. Will not be conducted by the FB. Oh Berkshire. Or we're in the Ukraine that will be conducted by Interpol agents there'll be conducted by European intelligence. Possibly with the help -- yet the -- the -- has lot of experience. In this in this area most recently. Having conducted a massacre. And during that Lebanon's everybody's aware. That got the expertise they will opt for their expertise but in terms of terms of actually doing the work and there's a lot of what it's gonna have to begun at this site. First that person that -- that needs to be done is of course with the witnesses. Will have to be it kind of the -- wreckage is going to be examined it will be photographed at the UK and her. And most of them will be on the way to go further examination it's a more apt. This nation which I'm not aware. BP -- securing the wreckage and place and then the investigators to -- -- kind of perspective assignments. Do you think. That this will ever results and evidence that can say yes it was the rebels -- yes it was Russia. Are we so fired behind the curve now by the time my guys get over there that that credible evidence won't be found. Well they're the short answer that is yes OK. Because we know what cap. He we know that its servers to air missile Russian origin. Obliterated plane carrying 290 -- we know. So it's on -- crime scene. Investigation. You know in in my estimation women's college and ask. We -- -- -- that didn't look good like I actually liked actually -- won't Collison and other than the aircraft was in really good shape I shall -- compare to the muscle. And getting investigators to the crash site yet they'll provide some crimes that evidence such routes it's now or residue collection. Up from explosives or or even though fragment. With the Russian backed rebels need to do. Very complicated to allow investigators. To get to the -- and to allow some sort of dignity with a 298. That people it's been raining there. It's an 85 degrees it's hot -- and the by the still exposed to to my knowledge. And they have been for four days. This morning some of the newswires are reporting that there are just beginning to get some of them into sort of a refrigerated boxcar. But the issue that you're raising is still a valid one. What would they find on the bodies how would that help the investigation. Well it's it's not really gonna help investigation markets sent it to this has gone to -- intelligent investigation. And and then and then and we know that the Russians. Had the weapons. We know he came from the Russian rebel territory. And two weeks ago. That you recall NATO officials. Actually confirmed. That the Russians were given training to the Russian rebels. That's very sophisticated mobile. Tactical surface to air political system. I think of the movie Blackhawk down which showed certainly after a different country different time. But showed rebels and running around with RPG's commercial rocket propelled grenades able to -- right point and shoot and take down the Blackhawk. This -- different this is a bigger more sophisticated system. It is. And the and the end. And in in my mind. The mind the mind -- of the -- -- show from a from a crime scene investigation. When intelligence investigation and then what they're trying to determine. Is how these muscle got into the possession. Of Russian rebel hands. In my personal station. And is that this will ultimately points directly at my. -- -- After the break a lot of talk more about the investigation. Someone touched on the fact the Europe and a Ukrainian American you have relatives over there you've been in touch with. Net could have been attacked with my father sister and and I heard utters. I'm still residing there and a pipe that in touch with them lately. Let them lose a couple years cultural letters and from the Orange Revolution that -- All right certainly -- issue close to your heart will get to the expertise on investigations will get your insight and Ukraine as well. More after this Michael Wiki former supervisory agent for the FBI here in buffalo when talking about the plane in Ukraine. And here Alan Harris has the news Lola will pick it up on the other side it's news radio 930 WB one a week it has ban. In world events and before the next where is done here will take some of your calls and talk more about the policies specifically in regard to the United States and Russia. And Ukraine of course there was that planes shot down earlier this week. In the Ukraine we're talking about that with Michael Wiki. Not only is he in -- Ukrainian American from the buffalo area not only is he someone certainly coming to. The table with that perspective and that interest in that kind of passion. But he is also. A former supervisory agent for the FBI he's a man who coordinated some of the evidence recovery at the World Trade Center bombing in 1993. He's a guy that knows a lot about the kind of investigations that chances are. Are going on now or at least that people are hoping get under way over and Ukraine. The leaders of France and Germany and Britain this morning basically told Vladimir Putin to ensure that the separatist give access to the site. That they say they want in this is a quote from the -- the newswires from David Cameron prime minister Britain. They want separatists to finally allow rescuers and investigators to have free and total access to the zone. Mike thanks again for joining us thanks for sticking with us. What do you think will come of this investigation we already know it came from Terry that the that the of the missile that shot this thing down. Came from territory held by the separatist. We already know I heard a President Obama addressed the idea. Of telemetry from the -- missile. We already know that basically the missile was there and that by and by virtue of the kind of missile was that they pretty much had support from the Russians. What do we still need to find out what can investigators still do. Well I think the the intelligence community right now out of the -- and pressured actually happen -- it. It that there should be. An automatic cease fire in the region and that will allow -- for the investigators to conduct a proper investigation. With with things going on the way that they're going on right now it's impossible to to conduct that the type of investigation. The intense. Type of investigation that he step and that actually frankly shouldn't have happened at least three days. -- or they're not gonna find stuff out because they're not getting in on the ground. Well not only that the there have been reports. They're good reports come out from many sides. That indicate that that evidence has than has been moved. Certain. And -- pieces have been stolen. The media people in the area. They have ransacked. Valuable incurred -- from the site immediately after the after the plane crashed the Malaysian Transportation Minister currently ample. So that the that's a quote. Integrity of the crash site has been compromised. And there are indications are vital evidence has not been preserved in place and he's actually right. What is it that they still need to learn that they might not be able to learn because of things you just described. Well they they need to determine in no uncertain terms. The bottom line is where the missile came from and who fired -- and personally. I I I I don't believe that this has done deliberately. I know that people will disagree with me on this many people will disagree with me on this but I believe the Russian rebels. We're given very very little training. In this very sophisticated missiles used. And they probably. We're not trained in all the capabilities of the of the and there are many capabilities of this at this specifically. They were probably -- given training that would help them determine the different. Between a military. And commercial aircraft in the area but it was probably -- -- blip on the -- where. They lack. And it -- country. So you're suggesting -- shoot down was intentional but the killing of 300 rather than just some cargo and a couple of soldiers that's the differentiation. Now I'll cement into the top of the program that you or someone with the with the of Ukrainian descent you're involved with the local Ukrainian community center down on Genesee street. As a guy with those kind of ties. Talk to me about the emotions talk to me about what you think is happening and more important my guess what it means for US Russian relations. The US's commitment to the Ukraine. Stuff that I know because of who you -- is important to you why it's why should this matter is someone who's not Ukrainian. Well it it is well. It's your long explanation of that I'll give -- the short -- and it basically has let up because of my background. In the in and have a look at twenty years and haven't worked. -- -- specifically Russian foreign counterintelligence. Operations in new York and elsewhere. I'm very familiar with mr. Putin and I am very familiar with -- tactics. I watched him watching. The the Olympics -- And Aaron and and basically I was I was watching because -- -- his mind that you can't put Crimea. And that's exactly what happened afterward mr. Putin. Is somebody that people record number was trained by a fellow named Nikita Khrushchev. Who has who was a master propaganda. And that's exactly what will mr. Putin is putting out right now what would -- that ukrainians. Here in the United States need to realize. Is that mr. Putin in this particular situation example he basically had a chance to extract it actions in the work to match. He number one could stand behind the rebel fighters when number two he could use this on slots life as an opportunity to. To shift toward some sort of reconciliation which he in twenty tend to remember with the plane crash that carried than the people president its name right now. And it crashed in the western part of collection he used that in. You bet it's -- As as as a former propaganda but it sort of displaying. Displays of empathy. That he showed during that particular plane crashed a plane crash who immediately in this case he can't can't blame and the ukrainians and and and -- to -- the rebels. From any kind of criticism so obviously we know where he stands at that particular instances that statement -- something to the act of this -- would never happen. It there was peace in this plan and ultimately stating that Ukraine's response tragedy and basically got -- not -- and responsibility. -- -- This might be a good point and and people are already starting call Mike let's open up the phone lines. 8030930s. And number Michael McKee is with us for just a little bit after that will bring in another expert talking about. The -- community and the US reaction to it. What should the US do about this downed plane 803930s. Number what do you think about Vladimir Putin and his plans. And though let's throw another one on the table 28030930. What do you think overall about Russia's intent here -- returning back -- the Cold War. Let's bring a couple of phone calls Jason in south buffalo hello thanks for Chiming in. APEC and it a little concerned that the media it skewing the story to get public reaction get involved I don't think we should be involved. But you know -- that Ukraine will not release it air traffic control conversation. And why -- this plane diverted a few hundred miles up over the contested area. You know I mean and also you know let -- to gain from this whole thing. I was asked that yeah are you suggesting and I don't know this to be the case tonight I don't want this to be. A wacky conspiracy theory but but are you suggesting that. The one group that perhaps quote have gained the most by this is Ukraine making the other guys look bad. Whoa whoa. All right Mike what do you say. Well that's you know and I'm not gonna deny reports that that -- Applaud many people so our minds. But the evidence that it is certain that that has been purported -- meego. Is what I'm going and that goes to the opposite. I do agree with Jason in in in fact that I I am totally against any military action. -- dead in my view should that be looked bad at an option. I think that economic. Leverage is predominantly the way to go and actually come from Germany. A country should come -- the United Kingdom. And that should -- content from the united. It's all right now there is a local attorney Indiana -- -- who has worked with. A lot of businesses over here and over there. She's our next guest she's gonna talk a little bit more about sanctions but before we let you -- Mike bring in one more call Spencer in -- thanks for waiting. Thank you for having I have a question. It's kind of a two partner. On the issue of Crimea. In -- in -- complexity of the others guess guess mostly that's supposedly dedicated trillion dollars. I'd like to know how much of that as you do that everything that is going. In if you could expand. There was an open -- in Obama was -- saying you would have more of the way to. Work with President Putin. On things that he were elected. Again if you could expand -- for. All right what do you say there might. Well today I certainly can't comment and then have not heard anything about Mike that President Obama has certain bit. This was months ago during the campaign. I think it was captured I don't know the exact quote but basically he was talking. Off the record to prudent in front of alive might. And says something like -- I have to be hard -- -- out -- might pare phrase I have to be hard -- now wait till I'm elected don't believe everything about say about you right now during the campaign. That was the gist of it. Back again during the election. In light of that comment and and it was verified its not like I'm making it up -- I just -- nappy -- -- properly. In light of that comment. Do you think that there is maybe a shift. Up public perception that we have to -- -- and the behind the scenes. Suggestion that well maybe he's not such the bad guy. Ally in IE I totally disagree with IE you know why I'm not aware that -- made -- was late. It was obviously a bad choice. On the part of President Obama. We know that mr. Putin is -- The government of the United States here the other day. The NSA. The National Security Council everybody knows who -- You to have to take a look at what he's -- recently. You all that could take a look at what other readers saying as well and the and the strongest words that I currently in and just you know -- two hours. Can can be a newly appointed British the current secretary. -- -- and Mike Allen. And he's accused pollutants specifically sponsoring terrorism and calling them in no uncertain terms. To get out of Ukraine and leave Ukraine to be Iranians. Now wouldn't what what he's talking about here's what we should all the -- And that is the head of the mr. Putin has established. By taking personal -- Georgia and now what he's gotten in and Crimea in Crimea. And the fear of course is that there's going to be spill over into Moldova and other states -- in the caucuses. So that's that we need to take a look at we need to take a look at what other. President. Are saying in Germany for example. Article that has that come out and so I'm very very specific thing on the I hate those Syrians and I hope that good. -- All right Mike stick with us let's bring Indiana -- -- now she's a local attorney she's also active with -- With the community center in buffalo the Ukrainian community -- she has worked with businesses over there and here trying to get the -- liaison together. -- the last time you were on this program right before the a referendum that resulted in the seizure of Crimea. I believe you said this is kind of the trigger for what could end up being world war three have things gotten even more dire sense then. Is terrible and I anchored at -- back here. Yep. Things are getting word. My point. Is to acknowledge what's happening so that we can address it as opposed to letting it. Whipped into a work in an area which is what happened. Explain what what you think is happening. What would you like to avoid. What I believe it happened and I haven't heard the out -- half hour with Mike because they're having some technical difficulties understand -- I may be overlapping. -- he said but that will be dead or reinforcement per cent. Yes that's fine -- and Mike if you'd like to join in at some point sure before we have to move on and and have Diana solo. Chime in at will go ahead guys. Again what would be -- What was the question please. I guess initially I'm asking what is your fear where do you think we're headed. And what do you think whom has in mind here. Well I -- -- Clinton had a number in mind. First of all he want to hold on desperately to power. He want to recreate. A Soviet Union and Ukraine into -- that asked. And -- he's definitely a charade. That there will be at below earth and to rush. A democracy movement and human rights movement. And and anti corruption and this -- ritual really bring him down and possibly land him in jail. Mike earlier in the program and -- apart Diana that I know you weren't necessarily hearing. Mike earlier in the program you said you wouldn't necessarily want to see military intervention you wanna see sanctions is ever called -- last time you were here. You said there's a lot of reasons why -- maybe we need to book -- sanctions but at the same time you said sanctions are kind of moved main network. Elaborate now you can. Well I'll. Let you know -- I'd been thinking about that much more because the escalation. What I believe is very important for -- to do is always apple. All of the -- open whether we choose to use food on the ground or not. We'll wait for us and keep -- get drink and when we were rolling out sanctions previously. They truly became -- and let me explain that. Because -- gave advance notice basically right. Frankly we're no longer doing that. How will -- must ask your act. And I would like to see that even go further because currently what we're doing is we're is being sanctioned in congress aren't. And I would like us to start rolling out sanctions. And saying OK lieutenant or giving your chance and now we are going to start and gently rolling out an escalating sanctions. And we're just going to start doing that -- Just. Keep rolling them out because he's getting angry about it he's responding. Thank you all are ill prepared for you bracing himself for -- week rolled out at Tora ancient against the energy and banking sector. -- like us to do a whole range of political sanctions such as prevent include ten. Round and being able to have a visa. If you're up to the US and perhaps other country. Are particularly the countries who -- victims Brantley Malaysian life that would yet you signed. Deanna I'm gonna -- you on hold we have some closing comments from Mike were a little late for a break we'll take that man will resume conversations with Deanna after the news. -- talk about some of the things she just said former supervisory agent Michael McKee with the FBI. Ukrainian American -- with the local Ukrainian community. Do you agree with some of the stuff she just said. Truly -- you know I -- -- and I and I are on the same page. We need to be on the up -- And we need to to we need to do sanctions well in advance. Of any action on mr. Putin's part when I cut out. Mike Allen. He's the British Press Secretary and in strong words. Yeah. He he he was asked consistently during that interview about military action. And even any refrain from answering that specifically cotton about sanctions and economic leverage being more important however at the end of the interview. He indicated. That is if that's what was necessary. And Barrett is an alternative and President Obama. Who recently each -- -- even quite come out and say that. But inferred that it's -- necessary that call might eat -- by. I'm totally uncalled and the same page with with -- All right Mike thanks so much for your insight this morning especially on the investigative side we are way too late for our commercial. On the other side of the break we'll pick it up after the newscast more conversation with the and it there -- And your phone calls to what should we do with potent what's the reaction the United States should have after the shootdown of this Malaysian plane in Ukraine. More to come its heartland news radio 930 WB yen. -- Derek -- is with us for about another 51015. Minutes or so. We're going to be talking for much of the of this remaining half hour before -- press comes away at twelve noon. About the downed plane in Ukraine and specifically what happens next what should the United States do in regard to Vladimir Putin. And let's throw another log on the fire as well what do you think about the way the president has reacted the world leaders have come together. What should they be saying 08030930s. Number. Deon is a local attorney with Ukrainian roots with. A history I guess of working with. Ukrainian business people over there and here connecting the two together she's also active with Ukrainian community center on Genesee street in buffalo. -- to answer some of that thanks again after a sticking with a sense of some of those questions for me. How do you think President Obama has done thus far in light of the downing of this plane. I don't want to be critical. So I will say that. I think he's catching up to the reality on the ground. And really starting to pay attention. Of course there's a lot warned that can be done. He's being extreme -- diplomatic. And you hate being as though he's dealing with someone who respect international law and human rights and and that's not decayed. So even rhetoric. Could be and should be much more Iraq. And the sanctions as I mentioned earlier -- -- out literally. Beef for. The neck at elation of a violent. What about the European community my understanding is that they have so many ties with Russia. That they are even less likely to speak harshly. Yet -- true that I think now. Things are changing very quickly. I want to be paying it is hopeful sign is Angela Merkel has been talking with presidents. -- -- To -- and. He failed. It began military equipment to Russia. That's a hopeful sign but yeah much more need to begun their needs could be. And energy preparedness. So bad. It the parent of anarchy gap being shut down. The pipe line that Europe is ready Ukraine into ready. -- need to be a court war. The military in Ukraine Ukraine is standing -- freedom and democracy. For the entire world -- -- for human dignity. Standing for international law -- recognition of that and support chill at. It could be through military in line there and equipment. -- equipping the front line people with names such as bulletproof. Helmet. Bulletproof. Best. Military first -- -- In addition to would be equipment they need could be carrying. All well help in securing Ukraine border is extremely important. If Ukraine path to -- and the support so that Ukraine and do it. So we -- -- -- and our allies enough boots on the ground there still things you say we could be doing. To bolster the Ukraine military. Absolutely. And I think that's where we need to put tremendous amount and yet how can the US and Europe. How Ukraine. And are against Russia and in the meantime yes of course have been diplomatic Arab relations. But app or questioned because Putin will understand. That drink and that will cause him to stop. Not the word of a leader. Actually seeing the mobilization. Of capacity on the side of -- -- -- in light of the relationships in Europe is it practical for any one of those countries over there to do that don't they. Have to be friends with Russia. Well I think they're seeing that it eight. -- there I kid who and what Russia is -- short term economic and energy needs. They -- and and creating. Long term difficulties because Russia -- and utilize that in a greater greater greater way I'm. Being technique could be Edgar Allan and Howard needs to be hit it. All right let's try to squeeze in a couple -- calls here we do we need to move on and about a fifteen minutes before the hour. But between now and then we can squeeze in at the very least stand in Rochester -- and thanks for joining us. And there are. I have McNealy blood can look at Ukrainian history it's a blood they have. The polls be amount to Germany BMI the Americans beat him up. -- -- -- that part of Europe has been nothing but a boiling pot. If people want to be hopefully pay attention -- are helping themselves we can't get into every country and get every problem solve these people. We've got to try to take a look at ourselves we just can't do it. That flies almost directly in the face what you just said Deanna respond. So I'm singing the US needs to put boots on the ground. We have. Great interest trial. In the global economy. And what is happening is -- directly in our interest. I mean Russia Romania and it basically occupied territory. That isn't. Four is going to be extremely. Lucrative. Energy why. And and sent and it is greater on. Ability and the eight international boldly. Plus let's not forget. We -- in a world where we want international bought him being sharply and this means something to every single -- and -- and the ability could be who we are. When we don't have. Should be. You re all staying through an international arena and -- in no way that is. Mutually agreed on and that we are not bait and these -- the issues that -- ending pork. And yet in this important brought to stand. It potentially. It will maybe eight or world is not about a bloodbath. And ballot you -- what we need could be. Can you put Shaq on the act and a potent. And create. A week and create a rock -- International global economy. Where do you -- Give me and the closing here give me a prediction what do you picture happening. In the next week court to. Here I predict you bet there will be much more going on -- in a land and that will overshadow. Everything out but I am. I am very much being. That the ball -- light is on the court. Or Ukraine two. To be equipped to Rick -- and and and it ended well and Portugal. Let me just say being -- -- I went to New Yorkers. To get Lee how the Ukraine -- young men who are on the aren't there -- a company. That is it good you're being a product -- -- locked -- -- -- the hour wound care that helped kill. To -- up a woman and prevent in action. And people are pretty nice day -- -- -- -- -- they'll try. And having it delivered to Ukraine. And -- someone in -- it into any human being with standing for re done. They and may donation and and two would be. Ukrainian credit union in buffalo. At eight war that then. I pie. And I will say look alike and that caught a whole sale. God role in ended with Ella pill is twenty I dollar and that will save the life. We will give that number I want more time Deanna email me some stuff on the actually put it up on our web site. The Ukrainian federal credit union and buffalo 8476655. TN -- they're -- thanks for joining us today. --

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