Jun 11, 2014|
Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
-- -- Beijing governor -- California rolling. Dumping tenure not ten you'll stay as they ruling goes -- what's the appeal process. But unless it gets overturned. That'll be the end of tenure in California in the judge's written ruling says quote there is no to -- That there are a significant number of grossly ineffective teachers currently active in California classrooms. And he ties that directly. With tenure and he says it does not give the children the education they are supposed to get. And it's a disproportionately affects minority students. And so that's that and of the group that presented this lawsuit is talking about other states of the -- are going to other states including. The first one mentions is New York's on masking some basic questions. California courts striking down tenure. It keeps inferior teachers and cost too much time and money to let them go as a good ruling bad ruling should come to New York State. It oak tree on 930180616926. 930. Go to John and not won -- John here on WB yen. Hello John. And it John. OK John is available at the screen says his New York State can dump port teachers. And the as a matter courses yes they can. But they don't because though two things the length of time and the money. That are cost to do it when James Williams as a former -- had a video buffalo school system former superintendent. I'm told us one time alive interview. That it it costs an outrageous amount of time and money to do exactly that I think you know he was saying the average time was a couple of years. We all remember the exact number but it was in several 100000 dollars to get rid of one teacher. And so you can see. If if you're go if you have four or five teachers -- delighted to add to its cost prohibitive. It's cost prohibitive. Actually 41. And so they don't do it so what happens is inferior teachers. -- still get the stay and surrogate the page get paid and yet in all the benefits. And though when it comes time for layoffs. They have stood they have obviously seniority. And -- newer students are not endorsed teachers and so. I get to get -- walk off the job in the senior teachers some of whom might not have the credentials and stay there are suddenly you -- because. Of a tenure now the reason if -- sound gleeful. Is because a couple of days ago I have this article right here the New York State united teachers I want you to think about this. Because it kind of goes way of my -- that hell's going on in this day and this is -- about when news article. The State's largest teachers union is challenging New York's property tax trees. The New York State united teachers filed motions seeking to amend the 2013 legal challenge to the property tax cap to include a challenge. On the recently enacted property tax phrase. The union president Karen McGahee said it's clear the tax freeze credit program and tax -- are intertwined both she said violate the state constitution so I'm sure she's. Concerned about the state constitution. Public schools this is going back to the article. Are still reeling from budget cuts the tax trees program as a gimmick. The dangles a check of -- taxpayers as a carrot to go along with a caps best. With the caps stick. Both be a so called property tax freeze on the tax cap undermine. Local control. And only worsen the already devastating funding -- For -- four school district. The motion argues that to laws which operate in -- deprive taxpayers. You ready for this of their constitutional. Right. It determined local funding levels and that the challenged a book was should be decided together. What she's saying as the public has a right to pay higher taxes. Now I don't know like you know I haven't seen any any real demonstrations. Or any real presentations. That he'll man the right to pay higher taxes in New York State but that's what they're arguing. You see that's what they get their money so don't give a damn about you. You might be making -- from paycheck to paycheck you might be on a limited income. And and you're not seeing it game by much if any thing but all they care about is getting more more more and the way to do it get rid of the tax freeze you have a right to pay higher taxes and just say this to any members of the united teachers a union there. If you wanna pay higher taxes. I'm sure. A write the check out to the new York state department of taxation and an -- -- just say this is a gift because we demand our right to pay higher taxes. Our taxes are not high enough. We demand to pay more so here's my contribution you wanna do that now balances that they just wanna grab the money out of your pocket. And that's the reason I'm so joyous about it a ruling like this. I have an article you're seeing any from USA today. I'll -- frank -- -- associated press and this is out of New York City view have one teacher who. After pleading guilty earlier this -- to drunken driving charges her fifth. DWY. She is on paid leave earning -- harder to thirteen 1559. Dollars. Now it says in New York's -- they have to go through all the describe -- you're up -- yeah and they said in New York City they know that it costs and taxpayers. Two harder in 50000. Dollars just to fire one incompetent teachers some teachers remain. Our payroll even after being convicted of serious felony. So that's at quarter million dollars there another numbers quoted in the California. A ruling were 250. To 450000. Dollars it should not count they should not cost a quarter million to half a million dollars. To fire an incompetent teacher -- one like that with five DW lies. That teacher to be in New York State. So yeah there are ways to do it but it's cost prohibitive. It is cost prohibitive. And and that's the reason so you can argue oh well there are away still fired teachers with tenure yeah. But who what district has that kind of money. What district has a half a million dollars nearly half a million dollars or quarter of a million dollars to let one teacher ago. I hear -- craft in the real world like the rest of us all right. We look I understand teachings important. I also understand the good teachers are very important. But good teachers should stand up and cheer with this because what they have to do is they have the work alongside of incompetent teachers. And I'm sure there are just as frustrated as everybody else's but it's about time that the community woke up on the courts woke up and said now. This has got to end and let's hope it comes to New York State will be back after it's now a were asking about this California ruling frontpage problem goes from page all over the country basically. On how they have struck down ten year as being unconstitutional. Sixteen page very strongly worded opinion. And we wanna know if you think that was a good a good opinion or a bad one. And whether to come to New York because in the article the New York Times article amusing. It says that they expected to go to the states in the first state. The dimension is hours. A judge oh you're on WB and from Donald on the go ahead Joseph. And I hit anywhere you go I'm I'm Joseph what's on your mind but I just wanna give -- a little information here back and thousand. In collaboration with educators administrators and a bunch of educational -- -- The border region came up with a plan called eight PP RXE annual professional performance review repeat. It is now law. And part of that law is that teachers are. I evaluated based upon their the what are -- a highly. They're developing for -- If they received and that the rating careers are well there was what's called expedited. 3028. Procedure which would eliminate teacher. At what -- what cards. No -- no cost no -- no pay out at all. -- pay out that -- you couldn't review that. I going to take you look at. Local annual book for her actual performance review AP. I let me it's like Joseph thanks to you. Number one is you have to hold on to somebody who's not doing a good job for two years that's that's the opening I don't know anybody. Said. A second job -- I don't know any business that would keep an employee that was not doing the job for two years secondly in Indy two cases -- -- a site. When former -- a school's superintendent James Williams was a year there was a teacher they wanna get rid of and he said it would cost over quarter million dollars and take two years Tony just read an article on current case where a teacher in New York City has five DWIs. And is still being paid on administrative -- now when -- that thing brought into a focus that. Well for the ballots only in New York that's how we got involved and that's. And second of all if you look at the -- and they put all our organization police. Are anything like that it's always. There's always. What that we would say until a final determination has made. So that's all right so so first of all it would take two years to even make the move. And then -- put on administrative leave until a final determination. Well not now connect the the guy props Richard there is no administratively. All right so in the expedited process if vote whoever makes a decision an arbitrator or judge or whoever your before. Says that yes you proven to be ineffective. The teacher walks away where would know pay out. Right. Well it'll be -- -- see how many times has been used because that's certainly has not been the information we've been getting. Your okay so that OK so nobody's gone through it than if you've got to wait and ineffective for two years. All right well don't. Well that's just echo if that's true it's a step in the right direction but it's still requires two years of sub par performance thank you and thanks for the information -- Persian. Still get to hear is imagine on our business. Two years of somebody failing. Before they can even start something. Well I -- There aren't many radio personalities that I know they have no cut contract at all OK and imagine the ones that do have contracts. Usually there in ninety day increments. Can you imagine the management saying in now it's -- really sucks on the air. In two years let's make a move -- o'clock. Isn't sure if you get -- -- two years of sub par performance. As a failure before they can even start -- move on you. Isn't that really oh like a -- closer this. That's ridiculous. So he says it just started so it hasn't been two years if somebody at the beginning. -- have been declared incompetent or whatever these termination Zedillo's. They're the first ones haven't the first batch hasn't shown up yet. But will be very interesting to -- word -- Because that was not not the impression we got what James Williams at all and -- -- just read. A teacher in New York City. With five DW I's still employed and on administrative leave being pity. While they try and figure this out. And in California. They quote from the California is settlement and a settlement Rowling says that it costs between 250. And 450000. Dollars. To get rid of -- tenured teacher. So it's amazing to me. That it took this long but I think tenure is a concept whose time has passed. And if if you gonna make the argument. That my boss doesn't like me the superintendent. The principal. The school board whoever doesn't like you so why always me I have to be imminent and they tenable position. Of them not being able to fire me because it's cost prohibitive. Yeah they can technically far you but it's gonna cost them nominal and they don't have -- money go school district's other animals. So timidity it's it's it's a -- out. In that thing that you can't even start proceedings until school years of negative and I would assume it would have to be two years of consecutive negative. Because. Otherwise. You could have negative positive negative positive make it could last forever. So I assume it has to be through yours directly and of -- none of them have gone through via the final part of that yet we don't know what's gonna work out. But we'll study. I think these notes and things should come to New York State and let's get back in the real world and spend money on education where it -- should be spent. What's this moment. On -- children. Matt every once in a while because -- somebody's gonna ask you for your body it's gonna be for the kids it. She has five DW lies about where we're trying to fight -- getting red -- because it's with the children. All ways will be back remark with the company under his -- I'm thirty wanna hear from you. The California courts frontpage noses obstruct down. Teacher tenure it is still going on and 20 lead appeals processes is expired but. That's the rolling sixteen pages saying inferior teachers are being kept. Is cost 250 to 450000. Dollars in rent them and it's time consuming as well. The ruling bad rulings have come to New York's and New York State I think so newsreader I'm thirty W via. You're hearing the voice of buffalo WDN. That call us now at 8030930. Cell calls are free and start nine -- -- -- whole free -- is 1806169236. Now back where the region company -- bachelor show last call over doesn't giving us information about that expedited way to get rid of somebody. We have tenure and the way it was explained is you have to be evaluated. If -- failing mode for two years before the procedure starts. Now the example I wanna give -- is. Can you imagine. Having any employee failing for who years before you can even start to get rid of humor I can't either and it also explains. Why you know of the teachers have been so. Adamant about not being evaluated. Because the evaluation process would take place. In one of these hearings so if you're not evaluated you can't fail. A federal budget 02. Years in a failing performance is -- -- -- severance. I mean I really think about it think of the how I'll just preposterous that is. And anyway that's a part of the California ruling. Was at a cost 250000. To 450000. Dollars of fire one teacher. Takes way too long. And then they have to keep the senior teachers -- younger teachers get laid off. Andy of their pinning -- on seniority -- tell you this about seniority seniority means one thing means you've been there longer a solid gains. It has nothing -- skill. It has nothing to do -- have anything you're your survivor. There are people who are survivors. And they lasts longer than other people but it doesn't mean they're better about it. So on the fact that tea a tenured teacher. As. More experience doesn't mean they're any better. Then the ones is getting out of college we don't know that. Experience usually is beneficial but certainly no. So what do you think it's like -- come to New York because in the article. They mentioned that they're talking about bringing this same lawsuit to other states in the first statements in. It is New York let's go to David analogue board David -- on WBN. Native. And I got a couple things -- if by chance she number one I ever heard about this recently and not. I'm sure it still exists there's the business school district in New York City. Maybe somebody else can get you more details. It's like the limbo for teachers. That there won't allow their children anymore. I've heard of teachers being put in special situations. Where they don't actually teach anymore but they're still getting paid yet. Don't they can't fight it can't local fire them so they send them to this place it. Pretty much -- -- show up and punch -- clock so they can continue getting paid with our tax dollars. I've heard of that I don't have any information on in front of me but I have heard that they kind of go in limbo where there -- out of harm's way but we're still paying for them. Yeah yes like the you know the the -- setup program where they send them around. Matter of two different drugs different what different plays -- Yeah not that there's a phrase I heard from a teacher right now. And I guess I don't think you guys have ever heard this because I'm sure whatever reference to it on the radio and it wasn't you guys all the time what is. Have you ever heard the phrase these two wars star fifty. None of your Johnny separate date -- later Chris and I have no we haven't what is that. You know ill will maybe now that I brought it up to Atlanta I'm glad I did know what is. Administrators. And school and I noticed don't want -- -- -- is going I don't William bill. To keep the numbers. It's -- and they can get up five out of a hundred for this semester they ended zero. And that teacher is pressed to give them what they call a star this. They get 50% as if they got -- hit the on every test and every homework assignment when they could do not say. And they're they're giving it up between semesters. To supposedly keep them in the game and encourage them not to drop out alone Dalembert who works there where there are some kids. Can get us 75 by blasted as you'll like you know some other delinquent and get to -- that by doing absolutely not and so they can fudge. The numbers while it's almost like boy they used to have social promotion where -- you were percent of the next grade when he earns it or not. Yeah well I got a brother in law that that guy is a retired vice. Excuse me. Vice president of -- -- united teach all -- -- and you wanna hear some arguments mean he's negated so. I used to ask him you know okay. -- who who do you get in trouble is -- the good teachers that the it's law. That they don't look -- -- Or is it that people should never an agent. Trunks that poor birds -- whatever that you keep your Japanese is so everything. Everything has written -- children but what you do when it is all on the quality -- teachers and everything you do is helping children it's the opposite. Boy I -- your Thanksgiving dinners were excited. Now many don't anymore because they're typical snow birds have been a Democrat -- and New York State. They go to Florida suspend their pensions. Bingo bingo hey thanks David thank you very much while. And I have one of the reasons that I'm so energized by this ruling is because of something that's happened here in New York State. The largest teacher's union in New York State the New York State united teachers has sold the state government. Saying that -- the taxpayers are being deprived. Of our right to pay higher taxes. Because of the -- have property tax cap. Now I wanna be I wanna be a fly on the wall. When the lawyer representing this lawsuit says that to the judge I'm hitting her. We have our right to pay higher taxes and enemies suggests this. To you so they're trying to get the tax trees dumped so they can get more money from you the taxpayer. Anybody who blogs in the New York State united teachers. Sit down if you feel which are not paying enough taxes sit down and write a check make it out in the new York state department of taxation and finance. And listed as a gift. I don't think it's tax deductible but it's the right thing to do if you think you should pay more taxes. I joke. I mean it's an absolute farce. We have a right to pay more taxes they've been trying to grab that last nickel out of here and there no shame. There is no shame and that's the way it goes so I think I'll win that lawsuit comes a New York State we will be at. Active cheerleaders for it believe me. Bring on -- will take a break we'll be back -- -- -- company under Israeli prime thirty WB yeah in the judge's ruling. And on the state of California the cost of getting rid of a teacher will vote. With ten years 250 to 450000. Dollars and the judge rules. That there is there's no question all sides of this litigation agree the company and teachers are critical if not the most important component. A success and chiles in school educational experience. There's also no dispute that there are significant number of grossly ineffective teachers. Currently active in California classrooms and on that basis and the basis of other arguments. He throughout the tenure saying it's unconstitutional. That is special effects of minorities that they are getting are inferior education and they should not be the case. And it'll culturally appeals process that while it does the loss stays as it is once -- through the appeals that becomes the law if it's not overturn. And so they will get rid of tenure in California and then we'll go to other states and they mention. List of states that of that that there would be looking -- to bring this lawsuit and the first thing that I notice -- guess who's number one. -- as it would be -- New York. Connecticut Maryland. Oregon New Mexico Idaho Kansas and other states with powerful unions whose legislatures have defeated attempts to. Change tenure laws. Just says the New York State teachers -- and said that we have a right. In their lawsuit to pay higher taxes. A pop up. We're gonna take -- present that. We have a straight face without laughing I mean really truly we do have a right I guess we go we don't want our friends and -- a right to reject. And why -- chamber about it yet. I had don't just go to trial lost so. I hate to see -- rights restricted. Write a check to the state government if you if you think you're under tax now. And that that they should take more out of your property tax which is what they're talking about. Then I suggest you write a check for the rest of -- field is taking too much now. And let's go to due gold's been holding thank you for your patience -- you're on WB yen. Lawrence standing alone of course the question for you when they warned gentlemen it just came they are killing about -- -- Shut up in New York stayed about they can check them out for two years. Career. But taxpayers in any kind of -- he or she has that paid. The other one down under -- of one dollar in New York City was five DW -- is on paid administrative leave. Now my question -- dude ten taxpayers who realized that not where they're paying. Or there. Teachers to be out. They also have to pay for another teacher took part in the actual so they -- Dollars -- gauntlet to teachers in one classroom -- absolute. Two years. England it's their short term substitutes. Or -- long term what is the content would be witness to which in those classes for those two years. That's a good point that's an excellent points -- doubles the cost in the classroom. And you have somebody sitting on the truckers and getting paid by the taxpayers not to be drunk driver during this sort of term there's there's nothing fair about it at all to the kids or to the taxpayers. Are good points good points well said. Sure you gotta replace that each of its on administratively. Tony give us an example out of new York city of a teacher who has I gave. I gave DWIs. And has not been fired yet. And I know that when James Williams was in here. He was telling us a one time about the cost in time and treasurer. To get rid of a bad teacher. So you know seniority means something only if if you have the scales is still have the skills otherwise it just means you've been there longer. And of the EU the way -- works as during area a layoff periods the newest teachers would have to be laid off first. So we're thinking certainly that experiences usually beneficial. But it it just means you've been there longer doesn't mean you're as good or better than the teachers are laying off so that's the way it goes and in tenure the concept of tenure. Is always been foreign to -- Cause I'm a business word there is no such thing -- tenure and guess what you're probably in the same business -- A a business without tenure who gets a lifetime contract. In one of it of judges' points in his sixteen page ruling was that some tenure -- decided after who years and solved. Two years a lifetime deal. And I'm thinking. I'm sure a lot of people self motivated. But if you were just in it for the money you could stand on your head and spit Nickels for two years you go about oxygen for two years ago lifetime deal and then after that. -- -- -- -- a quarter to almost half a million dollars it's wrong it's plain and simply. Wrong let's go to Dave -- Dave on a cell phone Xavier on WB again. -- -- I've got some information Florio about the California bill I was just well there by the way I'm a retired teacher 33 years of public education. And I agree totally. The Spaniard could be. He had never had been in existence. And get rid of agreeable and education but regarding California and also a New York City had called in California called teacher jail. And there are literally hundreds of teachers. In teacher -- And -- because there for any reason at all. -- process so apparently evident in new bill that I'm not arguing that that they haven't that no reason to put him in there. But if you talked about costing money. There are people being in teacher jailed for two to three years. So there are sent there they're sent paired again they still get paid but they don't have to actually teach. -- that they can't they can't -- or they will be there and and this this article I read out there directing you Google it. You can promote what they do is -- teacher jailed Californian has an actual tape. Again I actually wrote a book. And big they are not allowed to get an ordinary classroom. They can be there were out too well the what some have been close to three years. They get full pay and benefit com and then. It could be or not. They are returned to the classroom they they consider it a Monday. This is right among beer go back to class and you and you hope. To prepare -- but -- like that but. New York City has the same thing. To some degree I don't know how many -- -- that but it's the same deal. You can be removed from a classroom for any reason and the intensity I know you've talked about you know the boss doesn't like you right there probably wouldn't come to that. And it kind of malfeasance. And and and sent to parents have been energized to complain. There can be complaint. And from all over the place when I taught and what you were growing up I'm sure if you if a teacher and a notable. Your peak that you gotta love the floor concern and -- -- what you do. It toward the end of my career it was what did you do it like it. While you can and yes the animal and energizing a key where's the good thing. But but for most of my career. Deliver on the positive side but that it definitely changed. And parents do -- -- take. Responsibility for raising their kids so complicated total. -- the milk or are they get control at all. It's it's not. What did you do is what you do and in my -- has really does. Current and people that's exactly right the kids always right and when we're kids secure was always wrong hey thank you for that appreciate it. I'm hoping I get sent to. Entercom talk show jail if I ever like three years to pay. I wasn't. -- -- may now -- mean I'll take I'll get in the backseat of -- -- I'm heading to talk Joseph jail. We're back after this.