It's time for buffalo means business with -- Shula on news radio 930 WB EN. The only radio show devoted to local business and the people who make it happen. Brought you by the Amherst chamber of commerce to health insurance resource for small business can't -- Steve volatile foreign -- ball -- shedding Buick Cadillac. Drive assured under the Steve -- umbrella handle law office of around -- rebuild the team that's on your side and meeting New York court. Now your host. Buffalo radio veteran AM local business advocate -- Shula well. Back to another edition of buffalo means business on news radio 930 WV -- many of his body Shula and today we are going to be talking golf. And actually not just golf but the whole business of golf. And the entrepreneurial as some of golf is well sort of be kind of a fun show and we're gonna catch a trade and you know it's just the regular golfer. But also what it takes to have a golf course and we're here with young entrepreneur or Michael Rico. And Chris Carroll who happens to be the director of golf. At Roth Plaines golf course in Akron personal guys spoke -- the show think buddy thanks for having us again you and you nervous or anything right. And now are at all so we're here to talk golf. How's it going this year rothmans but which by the way can you -- address of rothmans. Certain rough ones is that 12089. Clarence center road Akron New York. And you who have just recently bought that golf course right. That's correct we purchased the golf course. In 2013. In April 2013. And since that point we've we've we've -- a lot of changes in the from the golf course has refused saying aiming at -- you can go to the web site. In see it at ruffling his golf dot com and you conceal the changes you've made -- for sports like don't know golf course. Well everything's it's all. In -- get to go out there play every game but there is the substantial amount of maintenance with -- required with going in golf course. There's a tremendous amount of greens where we and actually -- the assistant superintendent from Brookfield country club. Who has done this text Daschle job. Keeping up our greens on just maintaining the golf course. Now tell -- some of the great things about this particular quirks. We are 27 hole facility now for -- like me who doesn't -- thing about golf fish. You know I really don't that this is kind of an education for me is well and golfing. It's 27 holes -- analyze. Yes 39 -- took -- course we just have a team so we have three separate nines from typically go from cold to -- And we -- third course which is the white course so we can you know have any skill level player any age out there enjoy on the golf course. And it has gonna ask you about to what about people who want to would they wanna enjoy the golf lifestyle meaning it seems like it's kinda relaxing. In stress free yet separate shares -- which seems to me yeah ask them. What about people who don't know how to play golf. -- mean can they come to your -- and learned the F for sure we offer private golf lessons we offer also offer beginner clinics and ladies clinics. Which are only an hour long and -- Friday and Saturday night so anyone come on out. And learn how to play golf is is golf becoming more of what female sport do you think today are golf course for share. -- we have. Over three women's leagues. Are we get it Harden. Nine -- ladies play so for sure we're definitely. These friendly we just actually headed forward tees and they all seem to enjoy them the the course a little bit shorter now than it was in previous years for them. So there shouldn't lower scorers which means or draw on the golf course still the better so Mike what did you like would it would -- -- by this particular gulf. Course on this was mentioning opportunity for us. You know become big coming from the commercial real estate background. We saw an opportunity of buying. It's 298 acres. 127 hole golf course. Club house restaurant dealers 290 acres. Who -- Moses had. Well we have Jeffrey -- -- superintendent. Does a great job. Jeff -- assistant superintendent. I'm doesn't great job under Jeffrey and then we have anywhere between five and seven full time staffers that maintain grounds so. What was the attractive which is just available to trip at a -- -- it was available. It was actually at an auction. And it's funny story had real no intention of purchasing the golf course. We went down to the auction. And so it was a senate auction where people can -- -- yes it was an auction of abuses of foreclosure auction or who can bid. We went down to just we've purchased -- had the golf course down the road and went to see who's going to be our competitor and rough ones. I went to the option and there is the number of people there. I spoke to the owners I said in good luck hope we do well here at the sale. They auctioned off another property and everybody left so it was just myself from the owners. A little lower the price from what I originally expected. That was too good of a deal to pass up so we ended approach in the course that day. And so is it is a bit more work than you expected or golf course it it it is tremendous amount of work on the fortunate part is we have a great team out there to do that help us with. You know like -- said with. Between Chris Jacqueline who runs -- pro shop and Jeff around the grounds -- We have agreed in place what what is the hardest thing about owning it. The hardest thing or something you can expect. I guess the sheer amount of costs to maintaining. Grass. Because -- mean that's really the biggest point. In these golfers are out there every day and you make sure it's in top condition for them. What about the winter we we you know horrible winter how to -- -- Caruso doesn't affect the grounds you know. The funny thing is that affecting a lot of golf courses in Western New York book. Hasn't really affected us much. We got kind of lucky to this winter I know a lot of private clubs only have nine holes open -- some courses than even -- -- -- yet. Com we have had any issues as far as I know off the golf course isn't. Great condition I got out and played nine holes yesterday and I count went to the guys and just for a week. How much for the golf course looks why wouldn't like why wouldn't of course be open -- now would be uses they just can't get the grounds Jacqueline -- the green and what the wet paper or the other could be a number reasons non. Their web nation do what anymore. On your laurels in the June but a lot of golf course is lost the greens superintendent take risks they say. -- -- cover the greens could cost them money to do that's a taker risk. Because we have had winner like this in a couple of years and we get where like this and now you know. Lot of private clubs are paying for. What are the key things quickly and in the because there is a kind of -- beauty of golf courses as well ecstatically yeah absolutely what I mean. How do you have a happy keep grounds at pretty you know and mean and mean. Is there a secret cedar something like that that you put in the it in the grass -- what is it. What is it that makes golf courses so nice and -- Golf courses do you drive -- game plan sit on the porch -- the restaurant club house. It is different types of grass is the golf courses use obviously. In the chemicals that are that are put on the golf course to maintain the lush green grass. The next fairways the beautiful greens. And I mean like mics that are in the staff you have to have a great staff and bomb you know. -- is a workaholic he's our assistant superintendent. I think he works ninety hour weeks and that's not an understatement. I don't do anything you want to do. I've been in the industry for ten years now haven't seen anyone like themselves. We are very blessed to have him on our staff now you you are the director of golf Kress yes and how do you do you what does it mean to you a background in golf yet -- I went to college for gulf and north of the golf academy America. Don't Orlando Thomas spent five years -- the Canadian PGA tour column level three masters. Teacher. On -- later from the best instructors in the world Mike Bender who was czar. -- Jackson's going coach she won the masters in 2009. I was his apprentice for three years column against the tremendous my analogy working for him that he -- have a huge passion for the sport call. Happening. You know my staff can tell you I'm sure Mike cancer -- I'm they're usually from 8 o'clock in the morning to 7 o'clock at night in a -- not in the -- -- -- -- -- I'm out their points off. I'm there you know seven days a week you might have to be slowed the name of the -- and a. Now for two different things about about -- some people stayed date they get on a golf course because it's real acts. And they wanna get away from life yes OK but that I Euro others say that the reason for being on the golf course is to make deals and talk business. I mean what is it is that it is -- it's -- A lot of business gets done now of course is a very social sport. And you know yet -- plane anywhere from you know kids five to seven you know upwards of you know my grandfather is 95 years old still get some plays -- to -- there. And you know it's a lot of business deals a -- a golf course I was with them. A very prominent business person on this afternoon for a meeting for term now of course and he's said the same thing. You know a lot of deals have been me on the golf course. I wonder why it's called a wonder why deals are being me in it by the team on cable urban -- Aren't efficient and that's if you take on this side of the river that typically you know also walking sports here out there walking. For four and a half five hours with a guy so -- it's definitely you know one on one scene it's quiet it's like kind of you know getting away from the office out in the sunshine you know. Maybe have -- drinker too and definitely loosens you up. Andrea I just I just find it fascinating and so many people like I said I don't. I don't call for whatever reason why -- put so many people lying no gulf. And the -- can't wait to get out there for the first time of the season. And then they they and that's only think about it just seems to me like you're swing a mystic okay but a meeting about higher passion for. A lot of people love in in like you said about this winner we -- along winner -- And people could not wait to get out to the golf course after that long winner I mean it people were cooked a lot of people were hitting it the driving range and you know we had a beautiful weekend this Memorial Day weekend. It showed -- the golf course what are some of the changes. That you've made it Rafa and again -- I just wanna tell the audience we're here with Michael -- Mike is the owner of rothmans golf course in Akron. And Chris Carroll who is the director of golf we're here with them. For the showed today I just talked about golf and again it's it's great effect on summertime. What are some of the changes that you need at that particular course some of the major. Some major changes we've made it -- -- course would be bringing and Jeffrey first and this is superintendent from Brookfield country club. We've repaid all of the cart paths. We've as Chris mentioned we've put in a new set forward tees and our -- suffers three sets of -- blacks silver and bronze -- We've also. Brought on Mike Rizzo. From Rizzo has been charities. I was gonna ask about it and it's that's like a whole other topic because of bringing in Mike Rizzo. Well again people would know him from. -- or villains banned charities restaurants and Chinese restaurant resort so. -- -- which is now -- of genome. And each canceled which is another new restaurant is so he uses an amazing restaurant tour. I'm brings a number and then you know another skill set to the table. The food that we dues for his direction is very well the internment and outings -- him as the number of large advances his other facilities that Reagan. So. There are hurt and it does he provide aid food and at that -- run he he runs the restaurant which is. Resumes there -- when I'm at the golf course and he prepared you know he runs and staffs that. He handles all the food for all over tournaments -- outings which will have. -- -- fifty events this year at the golf course so you before it's a full service. Isn't -- do you serve beer and a -- we have a full restaurant that can fit about a 120 people in the restaurant our facility. We have two outdoor -- of forty by sixty and -- before you buy a hundred we can all the events up to 300 people. And another new addition this year would be -- turn house. So. You're not familiar golf when you're turning from the front nine to the back nine a lot of people want to grab something quick. I would put in it a little facility for that. So that people can get to or beverage. Was -- a process getting no license for beer -- under again another thing Mike brought to the table I mean he had several liquor licenses so. And you know was very easy -- solely worked with him to get approved for our facility. So Chris tell us about people who don't know how to play a lot of play can they take lessons that -- -- Of course yeah we offer our half hour lessons and our lessons. Like -- said -- also offer a ladies' clinic -- can -- on Friday nights from 63730. They can come on now. -- range balls get a drink afterwards I'm gonna tax when the basics -- And then on Saturday -- starting in July were gonna run beginner clinics the same time 63730. The same thing does come on out. And done editors of the game of golf and. Again you you also are involved with right meadows golf. Or switches and Akron yes and arrow head golf course is policy you have a lot of golf stuff. On the golf stuff that'll happen there and all acquisitions were in early 2013. Am brave man as an -- and her. Aaron has beautiful course built those five its links style course but both there and -- since at least -- an apartment house so we do operate those courses when you say links what does that mean. Chris could explain that debt. It's more. Like Sandra style from British Open. You know no trees hi Heather which is that tall grass a lot of bunkers mean it's bunkers that you can even see in front you. Com more difficult course wouldn't yet the yeah yeah yeah there there couldn't be a person doing this interview with the last call extra tickets yeah me I mean that you now. Sanders a pretty famous golf course so it's kinda. Like when styles scanner. For -- that we're near buffalo means business on news radio 930 WB and many ms. -- Hewlett. And we will be back with segment number two with the boys here coming up being just a moment. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- We're back at buffalo means business on news radio 930 WB EN body -- here along with Michael Rico. Who is the owner of rothmans golf course also operate meadows and -- head golf course all of them in Akron. And the director of golf Chris Carroll and we left off with talking about lessons. Golf lessons and things of that nature -- what are the important things creates. About playing golf what kind of shape do you have to be and what kind of what kind of skill sets do you need for gulf. Well you know -- kind of transform that you know and you know back mandated work and known as athletes and now he's out there you know built like a linebacker. From -- we get all you know shapes and sizes all different ages out there on number one as you know the willingness to 21 -- how to play golf. Only recently offer private lessons I do video analysis. On what he'll he'll yeah I'll take your golf swing I'll break it down for yet and I actually emailed Tia Eric who worked on so you can go -- -- yourself. I have an idea what you should work on you know until we come back to Verizon ranges well yet -- driving range. Can hold about thirty or forty people -- and it is what you liken march to war and the snow goes. Yeah we just open it up to gain and they kind of little later -- we like to because you know. Rough winter we had but everyone's been out there it's been really busy this summer so it isn't all about is at all about. Mean -- about the swing but what is it makes a golf players agree it's at I mean it's -- practice bomb it's repaired nests. You know east all of the best golfers don't play golf you know. Two or three times a week you know it's definitely dedication -- but it's a willingness to want a divider. You know get out their take the last and you know from from PGA instructor. Do you enjoy the game more you learn so much human mortality Newt could ever match about the game I was at guys asking me you know. You know. After lesson last week ten or fifteen questions just follow up questions about stuff that we can you talk about and they just can't Mike. Believe all I thought it was supposed to be this way or her as this -- I know it's actually this one. So do you -- post -- physical shape it really does it matter more it adult depends on your arm yeah all depends on your swing you know Omnia. You know the better -- you're in the more athletic -- as obviously gonna help on -- afar that the balls together yet. Yeah but golly -- and we get all ages and you know shapes and sizes though there are so. We have a lot of seniors that are golf course -- In my grandfather is 95 years old -- -- we have a lot of -- -- league and you know as you mentioned about as their physical type that has to play golf I mean. You know there's you of the guys are out there who you are Billick a linebacker can hit the ball 300 yards you're hitting into the woods three carriers Savannah. Shoot bad and the hole on the use. You know -- seniors you know they mean -- hit rates are but they hit straight in on the in the -- bogey golf which is enjoyable for them. How owed to hobby is somebody reserve repeat -- -- or media to be a member of the golf course -- we are fully public golf course we take tee times ten days in advance. You can either call -- pro shop. Or you can book online either way and taxed Appleton carrier from there so there's no membership you don't have to be everything just kind of go when everyone liked. -- you go and every one you know we do you offer up packages for a golf so it weekday golf packages. Anomaly -- gift cards even by. We put in a new POS system this year which is a great job taking online reservations. Comic Chris that we can -- ten days in advance online. You can pay for your round on line you can check in quick. You know we gear email address we can -- you want me specials. Would this Memorial Day we get a five dollar off golf special which really worked so well which is nice for that last minute call for Regis sure that a deal that someone once again and play that day they can. I was Memorial -- pretty packed weekend Guam Memorial Day it was crazy I think mics that are that with the weather is great depth and mean. I was the only guy in the pro shop that day I was exhausted at the end of the day it was it was a it was a beautiful day. On the business side looking year over year than last memorial thing we increased -- -- 65% year over year. You know like your -- to you know some additional marking you know -- being brought. -- general knowledge about people knowing that the golf courses change ownership that. There's been so many. Advances. And changes of the golf course and I think. You came on a beautiful more of that. Is golf is popular in buffalo -- -- is it is down south. Arm. You know it is -- it is and it isn't because you know we can't play all year round but like Mike said you know com. February and march character at the -- to home pitch and get out there are called golf courses and mid -- you know with her mid march and sorry you know. You guys open -- guys open yet. I think we can play all year round I think absolutely you know he. Have a ton of golfers knew it would be the reason that that's really the only image came to an earlier round. Smart seasonal and that the industry I was going more towards. Making this forty easier for people has a big push I'm putting forward tees and is making the game more enjoyable for people so it is the person and only goes out there and says you know wannabe out and beautiful. You know 300 acre golf course and relax and it does ball that they can go find him. On the other shooting a bad score. You know. Did did industries trying to make the sport better more enjoyable for people -- we put in the forward tees for ladies and seniors. They're shooting lower scores they're more now and Jim -- joining around the coming back creating. You know new people into the sport that haven't been in this sport -- -- while so. Q. Have all of a pro shop we do pro shop. We have a beautiful facility intercourse. We have a full pro shop. We actually for public course we have restrooms with locker facilities. We gotten we. We provide all Nike equipment are pro shop. Is golf and expensive sport to play. -- part yet generally it can be com. But our golf course you know most expensive rate we have as you know Saturday 10 AM tee time it's 35 dollars. That's very reasonable. Com we are preached change it you know 2 o'clock in the weekends -- you know twenty dollar to come out and play and I guess had its you know other public golf course and there are you know. A lot higher and that's so we try to keep it you know. Relatively cheap as we candy you know more people and join a game of golf. On so families it's it's good for kids -- kids receive units or more kids TC markets out on the golf course you know this weekend I have via you know we have it a good junior rate. On so we're seeing more kids on the golf course this year there were offering junior camps so we're hoping to get more kids in the gulf on. The past couple years junior golf kind of been on decline. So I'm really -- Richard are also trying to you know bring it back up not only for -- but you know for Western New York he also have the plea with the -- Syria coming over there we have nine holes playing lessons are -- take up my students from the torch through. Every shot they would hit a lot of about the videos again right -- -- actually on the golf course playing. On -- quad play nine holes together. And have them discuss you know what they're thinking before they hit every shot and and same thing -- mechanical through. You know what I'm thinking before I hit every shot let him know that you know maybe that differences you know maybe when I'm doing. They didn't they need to be doing on and you know when you work club selection yeah all the Kenseth a neo. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- We're here buffalo means business -- news radio 930 WB yen with Mike and Chris from a -- wins golf course. In Akron somebody wants to maybe book that he can book -- tournament. Get lessons what do they call. If they can reach is at -- -- 7165424325. You and you could also go on line now we have the website and here it's roughly in the gulf. Dot com Yeltsin who or what to entertain parties or we things of that nature we do a number of -- and outings we said we have -- large facility. We have to October 10 facilities. We handled at the events up to you know from five people to 300 people. -- or idea are you getting a lot of bookings. We are -- -- right now we are we right now we have I think about. Just over 45 bookings for this year with the just under 4000 golfers total for those events. You know we'd like to give up and this into the seventy plus range this year -- you know three to five year plan listed it back up to do about a hundred events a year when musical season and aren't typically in the snow calls but -- unfortunately. Arm but I would say you know Mitt you know right around Halloween is trying to. And you know golf course just and the kind of shut down so what do you go to hibernation mode at that gamer or what happens after that. What -- I mean typically win once once the weather starts cooling down like Kristin you know when she gave at a September. You know -- third. Lesson last one via outside on the golf course. You know we put up some final touches to the greens. I'm so proud he's getting ready for Eleanor. -- now. And then the grass goes dormant state so there's not -- severe means. -- And it goes in the nation illness that it's inspiring back again we know. Follow golf as the best golf to -- -- but the leaves changing. VOR rates will go down also so domicile fall off it is the best golf to play or not sway and out there in ninety degrees -- -- it's also not you know 45 degrees -- follow golf as the Bosco deployed. It just can't get over the maintenance that occult crime unit for -- and that's -- I'm Eric may in. Saturday. Is it all of golf course he 300 acres we have actually we have three acres in greens. So we have three acres. Just greens. We. Believes seven rates and traps on the property. And there are five or six pounds on the property. -- -- efficient but actually it is about. -- that are about twenty inches really. You know there gentlemen aren't apathetic and it's a production golf predominantly. -- that's very interesting because I'm sure. That if you're golfer. Your you can relate exactly what we're talking about right now is your typical thing and you're not a golfer you have to be listening right now. You know maybe your will be here -- wanna what -- beat. You're the guy to hear the got a call about yes absolutely does it takes a but he did at least start knowing what the actor -- If they come for lessons you know by time you -- few of understanding. Of which you have to do real so yeah could goal after that lesson you can go -- born and these semi conscious about what's -- yet I can't make any promises that you're gonna go out there and break a hundred -- you'll have an idea. Which are supposed to do. So and how to do. Who is your favorite golfer. And have one yeah -- -- the tiger would have -- Tiger Woods fan yes he's still the most enjoyable guys realize it well it lost a lot of you know fans so. But I'm still. Huge Tiger Woods is he's cool as he once was there is that it is it is because again ever -- he was the talk -- everything before last year and I would I worked in New York City last year at Bethpage black it's that's a real famous public golf course. Actually at the -- for Rory McIlroy who's you know former world number one. And like on the last four holes tiger came out and joined us now is carrying the bag and I got to hear them talking you know. He's -- he's -- you know he really isn't there is not really cool you know guys talking about playing video games and how is up you know last my plane the new games toys for him so he's Mormon nerd than he is a cool guy plot. I'm gonna ask -- one of the biggest events in golf Wimbledon. When does. And usually dotted and their rate Wimbledon you know as good as he -- you know obviously Wimbledon tennis but nervous that you probably and again. I'd be -- a little bit of that which you. Again we're going to be back with our third segment here in just a moment this is buffalo means business on news read united thirty WB and we're -- with Mike and Chris. For -- Leon's golf course in Akron the phone number again. At 654243. Chief -- your right -- clearance on Saturday. Wherever -- senator wrote in Akron off three Aaron all three are parents that are old -- fear pride within a half mile in each other. It's a beautiful 500 acres of love Landry their Clarence -- and get what seems to me is these are public courses however the -- looks of it it's -- like a -- feel to it. It's -- -- we have we have a beautiful clubhouse on the you know it. What we strive for customer service you know that we have the same employees and -- each day so a lot of people to golf on the same day each week we start to learn. Each golfers naming three years if you're a public private golf course on our next segment we're gonna talk a little bit about the business. Of -- -- Mike and how you bought the golf course and you you have other ventures. Including the blueberry farm and Canada will talk about in the next segment as well sort of be interest in. Again buffalo means business -- news radio 930 double. EP yeah you're listening to buffalo means is this with a buddy -- powered by blue rock energy stop. Think switch in saves with blue rock energy go to blue rock energy dot com if there's a business you would like featured -- -- at 8430167. Or email -- -- @entercom.com. Buffalo means business only on news radio 930 WBE and. Back with buffalo means business sun news radio 930 WB yen body surely here with Mike and Chris from rock wins golf course. In Akron if you're a golfer I recommend you'd you'd stop on out there of the places beautiful go to the web site. Rolf on golf dot com again it's acrid you can call on schedule. Schedule some lessons. -- yourself and just have a good time with your golfer checked the place out but it's it's really interesting as well. -- you rule might. You're young guy -- -- 35 years old -- 35 next month and you bought a golf course OK and this is just interesting and and of itself and let me say that you come from it. So -- regal name is. Probably a name that allow listeners would know. And it's because your dad Ralph. He is an attorney that would regal law firm. -- also. Easy head of the Conservative Party in your accounting and your brother. It is in public office jewelry go. And so that county legislator yeah so that's where that's where we may know the name from men and Mike is is is here as well. And pitcher and a different you're in a different angle here in this private sector -- with a lot of entrepreneurial hasn't. Going out how did you start anything to do with entrepreneurial yourself. And by sir and I -- went to our team for college. And I went to study engineering. And I'm I did a few internships. I didn't mention it McNeil pharmaceutical company. I was in nine to five job and really at that moment I realized you know -- it's not psychic and can't punch a clock every day you know I need to do something you know for myself you know something more entrepreneurial. My father's is always been you know he's an attorney he's. He's got a number a number of other ventures and you know my grandparents were in real estate my -- in commercial real estate so. He kind of came on to something that I want and being commercial real estates left Terry T immediately want to Candice is college to get my MBA. And did and won their -- one year program I'm where I met my wife and there was an opportunity we had every Frey. We have a local business owners come and speak to the group. There isn't a gentleman from. -- or real estate advisors it was a commercial mortgage brokers. And spoke about what they did it was commercial real estate financing commercial real -- sound very anxious to Anemia. So I did what I do best like I found out his name and number and I pounded him. Until he was giving an interview and I -- hounded them until. You know he would -- means just timing worked out perfectly where. He wanted to bring somebody on. On to start small loan program 500005. Million I knew nothing about the industry small loan program that's a small Lumpur gonna commercials -- up. So I knew nothing about the industry it was that was thrown in a convert German given a book and you know. That's where I fear you know fair -- site you know figured out what I was -- I use my father's connections. I was hired in June and 9 July of 2003. Close my first deal in January 2004 and that cute here added fourteen million. And then you -- gone on you over 500 million dollars in. Commercial real estate finance -- 500 million dollars in. That's in properties are financing their work for your property. No now my property uses his third party properties they represented life insurance companies. But that's how I got my start in real estate and ended up buying my first property in 2004. I mean that that's and now you have what 500 apartment units we have just over 500 army units about 200000 square feet of office space seven manufactured housing communities. Three golf courses. And were very firm very farm 127 -- blueberry for an so we have a 127 acre blue very firm in it's not -- Western New York it is in Georgia what's that -- you know anything about moving Ares I learned a tremendous amount of blue areas between 2010 and 2011. We had. Myself than my partners and bought a piece a land. Like -- -- a piece of land in 2000. And five but for the market crash 420 acres and -- Brunswick Georgia. They were gonna sell for development land they had an off for six months later that would have made substantial profit they turned down the market crashed. They hung onto it for awhile one of the partners could handle on any longer. I came in within another individual. We're looking at different alternative blueberries is one of them. I'm in 2011. He put in 52 acres of blueberries. I was there on 900000 dollars to put that in so what was there before the blueberries it was just -- plan really -- It's -- nothing grew Hannity just thought it was simmered actually company by the name of -- Can't -- of the company the largest land owner in the United States. -- our timber companies who bought it from them. I'm it was hammered. I'm so really the only thing was on property was -- was trees and 2011 we cleared 52 acres and put in 76000. Blueberry plants and blueberries -- post anything else we looked into a number of different things. Blueberries being. You know the best for the so conditions that we had. They were at that time I think students still are super fruit and the popularity vote blueberries just continues to set skyrocket so was. We felt very confident going with blueberries. I haven't fund and if you go down -- I -- -- eat a lot of Lugar and I. The technical out of Lugar is I recommend it really bloopers. But I usually get down their try to get down there twice a year I'm actually had to be heading down there with my partners -- couple weeks. We just finished our patent season which usually starts in the middle of April. -- said the enemy. So you actually have a company a realistic company yes started my -- realistic company pillar real estate advisors in 2008. Brian two partners Jack Willard and judgment KO. Whom you know we've. Really designed the company to develop commercial real estate finance cultural state managed. What would you say the average investor who just wants a little real estate. Little you know something for the future. Who knows that you know home. Figure rental income things like that what are that's another good things -- the pitfalls. Real estate while I look a cursory analysis isn't as an -- you can touch commercial -- meaning meaning office space -- -- income producing. Realist. You know as -- -- that you can touch and feel it's an investment you can touch and feel as oppose the stock market which really have no control over. What's your tax them and aren't you you are sorry I mean it's it's -- detects the same bases its its capital gains tax on real estate after the first year. What I like about it you can buy you -- cease having that you know we focus on properties that are undervalued mismanaged that we can go win improve and create value. -- we've done a number of times -- different properties. And you know we're able to buy something. -- market or. Minutes undervalued go in and with. In our skill set management team be able to turn around similar to -- and at the golf courses so from a realistic perspective you yourself like to invest I yen. Commercial property meaning. Buildings and places of business. Would you say that's better then than residential property. On. Anything income producing. Which are generated return. Is typically better than a residential property minions at some mini back in my house and rented out on the make decent return there're a lot of people doing that these days and you know for the for the person who just wants to get into the real -- you know double or four unit. You know could could generate a nice return for people who don't realize that you know -- overturns her you know over 15%. And. Is are a lot of cash flow that comes off of comes off of property right away or is it more for down the line. When it's paid off from the bank and you don't have a mortgage anymore where does it were to succumb what does that make sense. To sell a property Wendy you know do people not want to deal with tenants is what are the pitfalls or what other. That -- again one of the nice things -- commercial real state and defiant that controversy. Is its flexible when you buy a house you get a thirty year mortgage and it paid off and you have no -- after thirty years commercial real estate. You know like I like to buy things that are Mitt you know undervalued. So there's -- a lot of cash flow from we put a lot of money into it. And then you know once that property become stabilized becomes like cash flow and then properties paid off and 25 years. And you have a retirement was the substantial cash flow. Or you can buy something that's already stabilized. Put on a shorter memorization and you can cash flow from day one and so. You have you know two different types of returns that's me -- bureau by which your term investment and any of your cash and cash return just how much. Physical cash you put into a deal verse what was financed in the return man who shouldn't get -- real estate investment. And you know it it it's not for somebody who wants that there's different times but on the multifamily side it's definitely more hands on need to deal with tenants. You know phone calls maintenance issues. You know people think it's you know. -- sexy business into checks coming out of being a month and it's easy. And that's then -- is the case to a game and -- so quickly but there are. Different types of investment -- they were -- you know and there are culture and at least properties you know -- CVS or Walgreens or something get a you know six to 8% return and not have to really do anything. So what you plan on doing in the future army blueberry firms. Golf courses. You know -- hundreds of apartment units. Office based manufactured housing what's the next step for you in the next step is to grow the multifamily. Portfolio from 500 pants. I'm we're currently looking for a dollar acquisition right now in the neighborhood 30500. -- would like to get that. Totally use our portfolios over -- thousand and then grow from there but you we really look in your -- you conceive our portfolio. Between. Golf courses a blueberry farm. Office space -- family and we look for opportunities. What about what kind of opportunities are you seeing in the city of buffalo on there's some great effort agency about what we have the property and or anger across mansion that. You know was on it was a rundown rooming house that we bought 2009 and read it and Detroit to beautiful high and apartment units. I think the I think the new medical campus is really hampering a lot of you know let people -- downtown I think coolest property. On this tremendous asset to the city think that you rinks I think grab a tremendous -- opportunity to bring deterrence for hockey. And drive traffic into downtown in the U forty seal out war housing. In the downtown area and now we need that retail to become downtown so people need to leave the area. Like in regards who you know the talked about the bills stadium where that might -- think that would be good downtown. You know I think I think the bill -- would be good downtown. If there was a good place to get through enough -- through a -- I think the new proposal now which just came -- supported in west Seneca actually -- off the right side the sun it is a nice option because. Again it's right off of me throughout the ninety's -- from major through exit. You know I think I'm big fan of buffalo downtown I would love -- -- the bill stating MB downtown I think that's just the difficulty is. You know getting people there from -- two year you know what's the you know right now -- a thousand proceed even knew it was 65000 -- him I think. The -- well placed so. Q do you see the opportunity in buffalo being in the suburbs at this point or downtown. I think for the first time in a long time I think the opportunities can split think. You know there's there's just as much opportunity in the city. I'm a little more difficult in the city because you just didn't you look at more abrupt reproducing buildings there's not you know -- and that you can develop worse in the suburbs in -- still -- and opportunities to you know to build you know apartments or office space. I mean some of the developers would do and we've had plenty of them on the show here. And dad they're just doing a -- Down there is more cranes renowned now tumble off limits and use in a long time one would be more than ever I mean completely reversing you know fit at whatever remembers seeing. -- except you know now about Harbour -- and stuff like that the only thing that bothers me about -- -- and what you said is the roads -- like one rolled. To get to. First Europe arena. I mean there's like one road where else do you go well that's the and that's the issue says union deal here which they have like concerts. You know there and like just 10% which are in a 1010151000. People events it's -- to get out of you know I think if they can't figure out that solution I think stadium and be very. This has been a very fun show and went very fast and -- you -- said thank you for having us talking all thank you real estate blueberries and everything else longer mountain. But you're gonna go you know you're given lessons for Wimbledon now that's tennis that's kind of step that we're talking about culture -- Our guests Michael -- go the owner of rothmans golf course in Akron. And also golf director Chris Carroll. -- it was just a real nice time -- -- sitting around a round table and chatting with you about business here and I hope I hope the golf course does great thank you thank you appreciate it will be back with another edition of buffalo means business. Next week at 6 o'clock and who's ready at 930 WB ES. You've been listening to buffalo means business -- buddy Shula on news radio 930 WB CN. The weekly radio show that spotlights local business and the people who make it happen brought to you by the Amherst chamber of commerce. The health insurance resource for small business and vice deep ball go forward and Steve Barlow shed eight Buick Cadillac. -- sure that this team follow umbrella. And the law office of Ralph C will rebuild the team that's on your side and digging your court. Tune in every Saturday at 6 PM only. On news radio nine WW BEN.