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WBEN NewsRadio 930>Audio & Video on Demand>>5-29 Tom Bauerle Show Hour 1

5-29 Tom Bauerle Show Hour 1

May 29, 2014|

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

News radio 930 WBA. And. Wolves down upon the he would rate this thing it. If you go to the hole looked out my husband and my -- The fact he has yet Ford dead Americans what I'm -- -- protest with the because the guys out for a walk when not decide they don't kill some Americans. What difference at this point does it make. If you've got health care already. Then you can keep your plan if you are satisfied with a. Our lady and I don't know I mean -- -- -- People know and it's live it's local. It's Tom how early. Pair -- I quit net news radio yeah. The final some good 37 this way this is awesome not dumb and dumber two spelled T hole. Is as scheduled for release this November. And it will starred Jeff Daniels and Jim Carrey reprise their original roles as Harry and Lloyd. So I'll hopefully it'll be as funny as the first because the first one is a movie that. Actually makes me forget about headaches weren't a brief time were. Guest today. Somebody with whom we spoke before and somebody. I think needs to be heard because his ideas make so much sense yet there are so revolutionary. Man. I want to offer MB platform. In part because I agree with everything you sense. As far as a specific issue of drug legalization. Because it is my considered opinion that the war on drugs is one of the biggest scams ever foisted on the American people. It leads to corruption. It is absolutely criminal the billions of dollars week he'd done a rat hole. And as far as I'm concerned the war on drugs is nothing more than a war on your right to do as a consenting adult. What you wish to do in the privacy of bureau hold up before -- this man it is. His birthday. I'll tell you which. And we go now to last somewhere down state and we welcome retired out of I don't want to police captain Peter Crist from a leaked this is your organization I told you about law enforcement against prohibition. To the -- -- Peter thanks for taking a birthday to join us for a little bit that the talk about this very important issue are really appreciated happy birthday good to talk to you again. Good idea it's number 68 for measles were slowly creeping along -- When I retired 25 years ago the first radio show right it was at buffalo with a guy -- enables. Combo holy. No hole. Well I just -- congratulate you on being the only person I know two of retired from law enforcement actually George 25 years of your pension because everybody else I knew died like Biden after they retired sir congratulations on that that's saying something. -- bomb anyway Peter first things first though a lot of people think that folks like you and who say the war on drugs is a failure that the logical sensible answer is legalization. They wanna call us crazy radicals uninformed. Idiots what your response. Well -- out and actually you know people say we are over and alcohol prohibition and and start letting everybody drink alcohol to be what kind of crazy idea is this. The idea Peter bet if you legalize drugs we will simply exacerbate. The problem. How do you responder. Well that's what happened is that we legalized alcohol in 1933. Everybody became on alcoholic. We lost World War II in our everybody's speaking German Japanese and Italian right is that what happened. Of course the -- Most people make proper decisions is their life. This is Asian so that the beginning of the program this really isn't anything about drugs. This -- consensual adult behavior would you we have activities between consenting adults. That they wish. To do with each other. And you make it illegal. The first thing you do is you create war crime in your society because -- read something that. Maybe the people there weren't doing it to like two people doing at the property was making anybody do which. So now that's a crime and here's the big thing. -- series Marty is involved in this activity. You we have created more violence in your society and -- because -- these people in this underground market place have a dispute over money. They cannot go to the court system to settle the dispute so they go to the streets. We did not and alcohol prohibition in 1933. Because some new scientific study came out to all the support my goodness. We were wrong about alcohol it's really wonderful stop should give the cure kids. That is why we legalized it it only took us thirteen years to learn the prohibition lesson that time and that was this. Alcohol. Did not create people like -- local polls. Prohibition. Of alcohol is which created people like -- poll. Are you saying that all Al Capone did as a capitalist and as -- it was feed a desired that pre exist good shot -- it. Is exactly isn't that amazing. And it is an amazing that people just won't stop doing stuff because the people say -- should you at all. I mean it's that -- that was the case everybody we're -- spoken along time ago because governments to tell us how bad that is in fact. Considering that tobacco kills roughly 400000 people a year in this country. And all other illegal drugs combined only kill about 30000 people a year. Why don't we band to back goal. Now there is a great idea I'm sure that if we make it against the law they have to back -- everybody that smoking will just quit and that'll be the end of the problem. I'd be inclined to agree with you as -- -- it all the included some mistake your cigarettes sold on the reds because the secondhand smoke from those -- I'll tell you that's enough to give you serious buzz of a series had a I would talk to appear -- he is a retired kind of Taiwan police captain I've known since the 1980s. He is where with a group called leap and I frequently referenced this group on my FaceBook page and on this program. As the only group in the nation as far as I'm concerned that makes any sense on the drug problem in the America. And you know Peter they're doing the same crap now that they did back in the eighties with cocaine are calling for Chuck Schumer over the Memorial Day weekend knowing this is slow news cycle and that the media would I want a headline he proposed. 100 million dollars to fight the scorch of heroin I felt this comical in two ways number one. The Ralph Wilson Stadium project it's a 130 million heroine gets 100 million I think that's hilarious number two. Haven't we learned anything from the war on drugs that we have thrown billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars that demand is still there. The up product of desirable the of the day may change but the product is still there the only thing the war has done is not solve the drug problem it is criminalized consensual adult behavior and has given the government another avenue to strip us of our freedoms ago. Amen and her car up right on the money in -- what I do presentations. Out there in the public rotary clubs decorative thing being part of a group of people in the first thing I guess we do -- raised her hand after -- veteran. And a bunch answerable. And then I will tell them -- I'm a veteran I was in the navy in 1960s I always make it very clear by the way that I am off Vietnam. Hero. Vectren -- of Vietnam War veteran. And I make it clear because -- had two friends of mine didn't come back from the war and some other friends came -- messed up. It through beauty even suggest that I would too bad experience. That they went through. This honors them and the pain and suffering so I was in the servers during that time. And I told my audiences if I'm in the servers you're gonna send me to war. I want to know before I -- what victory. Looks like. Because I want an old I would give my wife my country but I want an old when the wars or pursue like in Kabul. Known Nixon decided declare war on drugs they act in the seventies he never defined what victory. Would look like. So I'm going to use World War II is an example -- one war we and the allies. Defeated the axis. And the war was over now that doesn't mean that every six sponsors so we got to fight to Germans and Italians and the Japanese again. It means the war is over we won it strong so using this. And we get to rebuild Germany and Japan so they can put our steel industry out of business. Very goal right now I use that as an example of what wars what that means if we win the war on draw extra. That means that caraway has gone marijuana is gone methamphetamines gone. We've taken those words out of the dictionary we defeated the drugs they're done that we can go on with our life and then I asked my audience. To raise their hand if they think that's possible. And I've done this in front of thousands of people and nobody has ever raised their hand that they thought that that was possible. And that I say are right. Then it means that drugs are always going to be part of our society there's only one discussion we can. Who do you do once. To control live marketplace. Do you -- a controlled by gangsters -- -- terrorists or do you what do controlled -- -- regulated and controlled marketplace you know I agreed not with march. Which occasionally stopping the drug -- does because the drugs are sort of notable -- reporters here a couple months ago and made this statement. We understand that this drug problem in our society is fundamentally our healthcare and educational problem. And nobody asked him this question but the question that popped into my head. Really it's healthcare and educational problem. Tell me what other health care and educational problem do you think we should spend. Seventy billion dollars a year and the criminal justice system. To deal with. Or is that rhetorical. No that is rhetorical because I would much rather spend at seventy billion health care and education so we can honestly do something. We'll work on drug problems society by bringing it out of there underground into the open. -- we're talking with retired to -- I want a police captain Peter Crist. This is -- ever rarely have guests on the show I'd have made an exception -- cars -- frankly folks I am sick and tired saying freedom. Screwed with in this country. And as far as I'm concerned the war on drugs it it's been so much of this started with the war on drugs. And -- -- and making people into surrendering their civil rights -- even things like asset forfeiture property forfeiture which are utterly unconstitutional because they will punish you before you're convicted of and neat thing which is absolutely antithetical to the spirit of this country but we allow it because it's -- war -- What are your phone calls on this 8030938030930. Start 930 on the cellphone. And 180616. WBE and in a Peter -- market -- a position Brenda mine. And at the -- The people using the heroin. -- do not know the potency. Of the drug may have bought on the street. -- they don't know whether it has been -- supplemented with that at all and then they end up in the morgue because there is no shall we say standard of purity on the story. Absolutely absolutely that's what -- these people are not forward headaches a big issue up to stop until they die. That is that what happens what happens is as you just put it what -- your bite -- -- street. It's 90% pure the next time you buy it it's a 100% pure the next that you -- it's only 80% pure. So you don't -- there's no regulatory control we don't have that problem with legal drugs we only had a problem with illegal -- you know which interest -- If you're an alcohol. And you live in our society today and I alcoholic I don't mean you're in recovery I mean your drink it every day and blocked. You'd never drink and drive and you never hurt other people other people's property. What do we do to you. I'm going with nothing because it's a private consensual adult decision. Absolutely correct what do we do for you. If -- an alcohol. -- functional alcoholic and you don't want any treatment there's nothing we could do for you because you don't admit to have a problem but if -- -- Richard have a problem that you we certainly have rehabilitation facilities and their group meetings. And all you have to do was walk in and sign up you don't have to admit to being a criminal -- got to do we say I want equipment alcohol and avid -- something else we do field -- To -- things succumbed to my mind very prickly one is what we just mentioned before -- heroin we guaranteed the alcoholic the purity of product. Would you buy bad alcoholic you know what sort of it's labeled right on the bottle. And secondly we provide the alcoholic. With a safe place to purchase -- used the alcoholism. Places caverns liquor stores are one and so -- now are what you think about another American citizen. The heroin -- And let's compare them equally this year organic shoots up every day just like alcohol drinks every day but the heroin addict. Never. Drinks you'd ever uses it drives and never hurts other people or other people's property. What do we do to them well if we touched them. We can we -- on the BJ roll into victim of a felony we have a little statement that -- That say you could recover from your prediction. You've never recover from your conviction. What about purity a product or just as we said before you never know which by an -- on the street and what about a safe place to purchase using. If you're gonna kick your family out for dinner at a bar night for Friday night fish fry a -- might be that I wasted vote who I would not suggest taking them to crack house. You know it's not a good place to fail -- too. Well the atmosphere it has to be able family unfriendly I'm sure those places. Exactly and why do we in this futuristic part of this why do we say we're doing this and what weekly news we're just trying to help them. Well apparently heroin addict I'm report just Wear any and I'm gonna tell you what if you wanna help the why did you treat -- like you treat the alcoholic. Guarantee me your purity of -- -- -- to treat without having it would but I am from little first. Give me. Purity of product this replaced the purchase use and and then if you -- call me -- home. Fine but at least create about bailed Springfield. What we do now which we treat this hole -- But -- probably unbalanced playing field and that we call these people's com on top of that. We have to understand. That these are our Brothers and sisters these are our children these are parents -- -- that are using these drugs. This is not for guys in a room someplace that are using drugs this is a multi billion dollar a year industry. Well yeah it's like it's like porn which even in the 1970s was taken in six billion dollars a year but nobody watched it which I -- -- was amazing -- hold we're talking with retired to out of -- a lot of police captain Peter -- -- he believes -- -- believed drugs should be legalized and were on drugs is nothing go to war. On freedom you what you do we have banging your private life what you put into your body your private life is not of anybody's freaking business as I'm concerned and those who do who joined me in supporting the Second Amendment until -- What did you have little or are shall we -- expanded view of freedom in general. And what we are supposed to be as a free nation. I submit -- you we are not the land of the free and I furthermore submit the Chuck Schumer is a consummate ass under his radio 930 W via. -- Just seemed appropriate at a after all you are just another brick in the -- It is at 333 news radio 930 WB out of -- -- my guest is retired out of town of one police captain Peter Crist. Who is an advocate for legalizing drugs that are now illegal. And I've been on this bandwagon now for quite some time I believe -- your freedoms are at risk are believed that this was. Really the beginning of the end of real freedom. In America at least our ancestors woke up from the 1920s. And boardwalk empire and Al Capone and the untouchables and said you know what. We've done is make a bunch of criminals did the multi millionaires you know back with a million dollars was a lot of money. And now all I don't know you go to a football game and seems to me -- seawater to beer vets one or two guys walking up the spears Ellen -- -- -- games for some strange reason I can't figure that out. Peter the idea that. If they are legalized. We're gonna make drunk driving it worse we're gonna create more addicts. And people are just gonna spend all of their time stalled out of their minds on weed meth Coke U name. Anybody in this country who wants to do you illegal drugs. Is not can not doing them. Because they can't get. Let's be honest about this they are available in any level of society. I did a television show a couple of years ago a lot of reporters under Sergio I could -- a reporter make a call -- five minutes I could have something delivered. And I don't -- aged and she said I don't even know anybody that those drugs and I'm sure could do this. That's the reality of the world we live in. And let's at least be honest about it we have in this country the largest prison system on the planet earth. Roughly a third of those persons souls are filled by non. Violent drug offenders people who were simply selling something that through some legal wanted to buy them. And I also want to mention something else about that present system to weather things one is -- sort of the most efficient prisons systems in the country. If you can't efficiency. By the fact that we put you in there and you don't come out until we let you out OK so pretty much we put -- you stay there in the age huge. -- Haitian prison system we do not have won -- drug free. Prison in America. Every president has a drug problem inside of -- and what I am saying why am bringing that up is this. To -- your listeners out there when they're driving around in Erie county in the drive by your school. And they see -- sign out front of the school that says drug free school. Understand. That we do not have one drug free prison and the difference between the people in the prison and the people in this school. Is that people in this school have all of their -- expertise and the people in the present have none of and yet we cannot keep drugs out of prisons we have to get realistic -- ball. Wait a minute are you saying that in -- most tightly controlled environment we have in America the prison system. That corruption. Makes the drug trade profitable. Are are you serious. The absolutely serious and not -- destruction of that bad end of it but it affects everything we got we got police departments in this country. And I ornament is available for richer which you mentioned earlier we have police department in this country that are basing there. Budget for the police department -- expected for pitcher and I think I -- manageable for pitchers this we have two different kinds of forfeiture in this society. One of them is called criminal forfeiture. And let's say you've been Robin banks for a number of years we finally you're rushed you and what we rush you we find all these powers that you bought stopped like yet. And all the stop that you accumulated from the body you stole. We seize all their property and we hold and we hold it until we convict you of the crime. And if we convict you of the bank robbery that we keep that property that we dispense their money out amongst the law enforcement community. The other -- -- feature is called civil for the future. And the difference between crippled or richer and suitable for -- is in order for being just -- I'm sorry to confiscate your property. Personable for richer all the way do we make an accusation. I'll give you an example. And this little story I may drop. Just so people Astaire wanna talk. Wait Peter reported -- there it has long been accepted principle of law I believe dating back to English common law that one is presumed innocent until and unless proven guilty at a court of law my correct. Yeah that's what you would think the -- of that incident -- civil case seeing it as civil case were not arresting you for anything. Let me give an example you and I grew up together the city of buffalo and we get this threatening top okay. And I haven't been around for awhile and I can -- on the visit yeah and I see how everything goal and you see signs. And I say gee what time do and I citizens bothered his batting order appliance store down the city has established -- -- appliance store. In 86 point he's still -- that this is and I think OK what that -- I just bought a ten unit apartment building and I need ten refrigerators. And -- and I'm likable by my old -- chimes so why stop at the bank. I take out ten grand -- cash my morning I put it in my pocket. And I drive down into the city about outlook towards the world used to be when predictor of the building is vacant. -- a couple guys stand in front of the -- -- ruled on the pressure -- -- -- tool Jeter used to be an appliance. Story here and they go yeah he's two blocks down one block over. Michael OK thank you in as artful way all the separation red lights and a review your break her. I pull over -- I'm an honest person yes -- violation registration yes we step out of the terror they get me down and people want bills out of my. And they say what's this. And I go -- that's my morning just took it out of my pocket. And they say yeah -- said the Paltrow sort of torture would be doing what we're here to receive your morning we're gonna keep your morning. And we're gonna take -- terror. A what are you arresting me for. Nothing nothing but we know you're down here to do drug does is -- -- were distraught and drug dealer Viktor in the quarter so. You -- -- -- -- wants tickets and the court. If you you can prove you weren't don't hear about drugs will do stuff. How do you prove what you were trying to do what you didn't do. Exactly. In her system that we have in this country get the police make an accusation. It's our responsibility to prove you did it. Now -- -- are making an arrest Sergio civilly seizing your property -- is criminal it should not happen in the recent. -- what we don't let the free society should have been telling people. Reader and and I mean I've been on this on this bandwagon I mean I I beat you you were part of of wake me up. And why say it was another part awaken me up on a few other things were part of wake me up and I really realize that the handwriting is on the wall in terms of liberty and freedom in the United States and what is disturbing to me Peter is not easily manipulated people are and how few people we have capable of the logical -- you have. And how difficult it is to convince people that this radical notion. Of legalizing drugs is the way to go -- If it is mind boggling bewildering and frankly it makes me sick. We knew we take up to drugs and -- essential quality QB that you were exchanged a big -- apple. I was watching -- figure PBS a couple of years born in a two hour special of the gay issue with the mayor and and it started out with -- worry about history. And the -- on the screen said. They had in 1960. It was ill people to be be in Arab states. But Illinois. Now when I first read that the first CA thought to myself was her race for Illinois for being smarter than everybody else okay. But I thought to myself gee I came on the police job in 1969 I never arrested anybody in twenty years should be engaged. Think most of Donald -- with the law before -- came on the job and I remembered. -- -- We have a law and he urged gates called consensual sodomy law. And it made sodomy between consenting adults -- goal as long as they were married to each other which. Beginning people couldn't do exactly therefore every time gay people it's actually it was a pessimistic music could be arrested work. And now I never arrest anybody forward my department averages stars I know quite what happened after -- left. But I checked you know what we rightly did away with that -- New York State in 2000. It was illegal to be getting bigger state until 2000 there's another example of morality will be sitting. And that is not the function of law enforcement. Law enforcement the way we have law enforcement of our society today which created by a guy but it means more Robert peel. In the early eighteen under it's. London -- good start but what the police department. And he was very clear he wanted to put a group of people in society. Who would protect people from other people doing them are. Not to enforce morality but to make sure that other people -- to other people are which you'll allow law enforcement to do. Society does look like just perhaps as much as they like firefighters. Perhaps. They'd like this a little bit war if we're not peak in the windows telling them what they can't think he would do in the privacy of -- And we have to get law enforcement out of this business. And that there shouldn't be any ideas appreciated me wolf watchers saying all of -- shot against the prostitution should be legal I said if it's between consenting adults yes. It. I did a radio show on Wednesday. And our guest was another lead guy it's -- former -- -- -- top. Right or corrections officer. And I was talking to a but any time I ever corrections officer. I always ask them about. -- tell everybody what it was like to work to -- apartment you laugh like they always do. Well to me it's a great question. And I have to ask you this bitter the correlation. Between our. Invasion of Afghanistan. And the resurgence of the heroin trade. In America. Is on the dean viable and every single guy nobody is ever challenged leaders who came back Afghanistan. This country's official policy which began governor bush was we turn a blind eye to the poppy fields if you tell us where the Taliban use -- a big bribes involved as well there's a -- involved -- -- -- -- was murdered. Do you see the correlation or MI just being a revolutionary radical militant whack job. And dollars it is it's a perfectly and in fact here's the other part of it. It didn't react. We -- legalized regulated drug marketplace. That open -- visit that industry it would be illegal business and we would have control risk it would be an underground economy. That's which you want to do you want to shut down the underground economy. A brief cases of American taxpayer dollars and people in the number's going to these Afghan warlords yeah okay. Millions and millions of dollars our guys some of them skims some -- off the topic -- their beats are right there and because it is a criminal basically it's criminal enterprise that we pay for -- we call it to the war on terror. End up and humid and as a result. The marketplace is again flooded with heroin at the same time as well intentioned but I think misinformed people. Begin this war against legitimately prescribed painkillers and basically -- they're using they're dead kids to trump other people's chronic patent issues which I find immoral itself. Absolutely in fact that -- -- one of the big problems in this society today he added we're seeing a lot with our veterans now. And that is people because the government controls. The amount of painkillers that doctors are allowed to give. And because doctors don't just have one patient but they have many patients so they will deny eight. One patient pain medication because they don't want to DEA comedians disturbing their cooperation. And that person now what they can't give proper pain medication from their doctor. -- -- to the streets and start buying it there because they want to fight the pain you know it's interesting. We -- it just for minor little stop that we all buy some of the two listeners to this program but they have at a some of them by aspirin. And it works perfectly well for them. Some other people buy aspirin doesn't really help much. But if they take Tylenol it works very well for them. Were all different we all used drugs in different ways our body chemistry is different were all unique. And what we do we try to set a standard saying everybody should all under this standard. And would you set a standard you always dropping people -- from the fringes. And those are human being those are American citizens that deserve our understanding and our pain in our comfort. And that's who we should be involved in doing and it should be that when somebody how are you you have no hesitation the call. At least because of please don't give a damn tortured doing in the presence here on a give your perfect. Well -- I wanna hear your example because -- this is gonna be right up my Alley as far as the privacy of your home it's none of anybody else's business. With whom I sleep or how many I choose to sleep -- at a time thank you very much. And sorry. What I wanna put my body in the privacy of my own home it's none of anybody's business unless I wanna do a show on it or mention it on the year are right. It's none of the government's damned business it's none of your business it's consensual. Adult behavior and I don't know what's hard to understand about that. Especially with some of my friends in the Second Amendment movement who tend to be more conservative. And and they'll fight. -- -- L for the Second Amendment without realizing the larger issue of freedom in general which have been preaching now since then why say it went into effect. Stay with us -- -- ready at 930 WB a look -- your phone calls you agree you might have an argument that you think is gonna -- Peter out of the water. I wanna you're an adult don't call it what -- daughter don't send me some email five hours after the show is done call now. Because I'd left here. The arguments he would make against what I think is a perfectly logical it's not solution. But a better solution than throwing people into rotting in jail cells. Because they do drugs or because they sell drugs to a friend a or because they supply market the man just like Al Capone did. By the -- just represented Al Capone only what the prison protects invasion not prohibition violations ponder that a WB Ian. And AccuWeather tonight partly cloudy 52 tomorrow sunshine 74 right now 66 news radio I'm thirty WB yet. -- -- very interesting you mention headaches earlier because as my listeners know I was diagnosed recently. Which. I'd something going to be going on in my brain which I was unaware of the it was causing these thunder clap headaches called. Cerebral vascular lighters and I will tell you there is nothing I have found except performing on the radio that will take away these headaches and -- the zone is the only thing. Except you can only do predators on so much before Roger bones. So. I I love these people who make these arguments that some -- people like me or people who also have severe back injuries in the long term. It's better for them -- some well more noble to suffer. That it is to do what ever they have to do to get relief. -- and that is obviously observed. That the -- -- -- I'd be we'd have people should be able to be his -- entries possible and like I said earlier. -- drug were differently for all kinds of different people so they have to be able they have the broad spectrum. Of the pharmaceutical industry to help them. Look at the argument were having in this country able marijuana talks. Medical marijuana. I mean I really don't give a damn if marijuana has medical use or not. Because I know that every pharmaceutical study that's ever been done. 30% of the people elected to proceed -- Think it works OK so even that marijuana is just something that's in the persons had. But they think it makes them feel better -- won't eight to tell them that they can't hear. Which by the way it makes it no different than most other drugs other tested against a placebo. Exactly exactly. I did depicted as morality police eagle -- a little bit if you're going to think that it's a good idea. Two hair bow our armed police in your society in forcing them morality. There is a question you have to ask yourself first. Whose morality. Are we going to win for your. Islam. As an interpretation of morality. Judaism. As an interpretation of reality. The Christian church. As many differed varied interpretations of reality depending on which Christian religion do you look at Hindus have a interpretation of brutality. -- set so if you're going to we have our police enforcing morality. Whose morality or you go to pick and before you answer the question I suggest you go back. Two of the First Amendment here and read just one more time because it's Serbs something in the error about the government not doing anything yet. To create to use our support. Religion and that is what we should be doing in this. Establishment clause -- is what it is known as and it was put in there for very good reason and I I keep trying to tell people. The history with which -- founding fathers were most familiar with that of England in particular the wars between the Protestants and the Catholics because Henry the eight Elizabeth the first -- queen Mary. All right they -- that. The Christian faith. The Catholics would -- and the Protestants and Protestants and Catholics depending on who was in power and they understood that he can't have a state religion it doesn't work. I'm stay stay whether -- on that WB EM. Where I'm challenging you today with ideas that may be new to you. But they should not be new to you if you believe in freedom and liberty and the concept of the land of the free and the home of the brave -- you wanna live in the land of the police state you're in the right place because that's where we're heading.

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