This was the week where Governor Cuomo came out with his common core commission statement basically saying. You know coming of course good we got to push ahead with a standardized testing not so much so. Right after he came out with that there was a descent issued. By east or high school teacher Todd Hathaway he was on that commission he's with us now for the next half hour Todd thanks for joining us thank you. What is your biggest beef about the Cuomo report. The lack of time we had to deliberate over the issues -- them come to consensus. And come to a determination. We have an -- half. Total total -- six and a half hours of meetings five and a half five hours of which were receiving testimonial. And I mean an hour and a half to discuss substantive. Substantively. Is there something in their you don't like either. Substantively I look at the issue that's happened to change the dynamics -- classrooms. The as long as we keep attaching. A flawed test scores to teacher evaluations are gonna produce flawed teacher valuations. That's the major issues such so you don't have so much of beef with that in terms of what it means for the student student development levels that kind of thing and that's a secondary concern actually along with that when you know they're both right there when convert there are some. As receive testimony in the panel there are some are grade level worked it is not development of corporate ticket for young couple's first years. I've heard that too will get into it after this it's hard line on news radio 930 WB -- Let's launch back into it about common core though 803 on 930 you'd like to join the conversation. I'd love to hear from students and certainly parents who have watched this thing rollout. One person who seem to roll out first and again his high school teacher Todd Hathaway. Social studies teacher in the East -- district someone who was picked to be on governor Cuomo's commission. That looked at -- court we're talking about this a little bit before the break time. You have concerns about the whole way this commission operated. I do simply because we were given the time to fully deliberate on these very substantial issues we had six and a half hours of total -- time. Five hours of which were contained in receiving testimonial. From various. Presenters. Across the state across the nation. We in an hour half laughter while we eat our lunch. And to talk about this. In an Elvis on Sunday night we had a draft recommendations. We get the final we get the final product. I Monday night who did the draft was that staffer was that you folks the draft came out of I believe the governor's office and what does it say what what what the commission say at a -- from the procedural problems you have with that. What's substantive issues are there that you don't like what the first issue is it really didn't acknowledge. Some of the testimony regarding the development -- of the comptroller -- standards. I'm an expert chemical earnings standards but I know how you rule party implement and brought -- he just don't do it overnight -- you have time for review for improvement. To make sure it's accurate it's realize what's appropriate. And the chemical and since insane in the all anecdotal evidence we don't have hard core evidence of the because we weren't given the time nor is a state take the time to evaluate them. When you say developmentally until and appropriate does that mean stuff is being taught to kids at a younger age and it should be taught. Yeah that incorrectly stuff this won't sit in there won't sink in you may cover that with the student but now we have lots of anecdotal stories from various teachers and three great levels envelope. Saying you know we talk about this but I know they don't understand -- -- they're gonna look like they do they're gonna pared back to me when I wanna hear but it really didn't kind of get into them. I've been told by an English teacher that some of the appropriateness. Kids and I believe elementary school maybe middle school. Were asked to responder piece of literature that in the in ways I can use here on air in the crude is -- talked about all oral sex. You had another example tell me what happened say in the fifth grade in social studies that you don't think is right. In fifth grade there they're asked to go over universal declaration rights. That's they're very substantial piece of later of legislation adopting our nation's afterward to really responsible holocaust. You have damage in the context of the just kind of tune it out with punished in the larger piece to that issue. Will reveal to the student very little they were able to read that tell back to you. But they won't get the contacts the meaning of that document why it's relevant in those are examples and just one in and again I'm out of three extra -- now. There are more of these in the pact is uneven we have to take what's good fix what's not -- I can remember reading papers on UN legislation in college guys not not necessarily I -- as a high school country teacher I teach the either you restriction rights to my sophomores. And then the -- and do this to students where you know I agree levels earlier is kind of -- All right but the -- -- the of the people who like common core including the governor including regent Bob Bennett including education chancellor commissioner John King. And even those at the federal -- state standards are great if we set the standards high where we're setting kids up to achieve. Amen you know there's nothing wrong with -- with the concept -- you know making our students preparing for college and current level -- -- work in school. But we animation you do and a -- -- can mean something in the stats are masters for further failure. And so as a whole the standards -- and bat. The problem is -- and implementing them in a way that makes the standards themselves you know worthless and when he was because they're so difficult so new so radically different. Then we can have the time to adapt fear what's going on what's good when you do how we -- bank of lessons to address these issues. We have young leftist coming up but this mean I worked -- my students -- so maybe I need to look at different wing and I don't have the time to do it. So if these are being implemented poorly yes you as a teacher are being judged on your ability to implement -- is is that part of it here but it wouldn't how works is part of the the the new. -- any pressure from performance review. That's the teachers now -- we deal with is that. I'm student test scores will be attached to a teacher's evaluation. And so if you're gonna produce here's flawed testing system prison flawed test scores you're gonna produce flawed teacher valuations. It's a logical consistency you were placed on the Cuomo panel because of your nice at the New York State united teachers union. The rap. Is in many cases while he's -- the unions just don't want to be measured they just don't want accountability. -- that. You know that's just the canard I mean that's just a rumored hearsay is not true. Were manner argue for the elimination of teacher evaluations were earning four good proper responsible reliable teacher evaluations. You know in your state has a long history teacher valuation my school this Easter -- as a long future relations program. In fact just even example our school board adopted a resolution rejecting. The current he could be system because in fact it's worse than our old one. And so it's not in fact. The district has rejected it and that's just not just teachers union now that's for the school board voted seven to 220 rejecting the use of two and the student test scores. In teacher those -- program. Does that put them at odds with the state they have come up with an alternative crowd -- -- induced its -- bound by community can't you know not do it because it is state law. So it just its sister -- statement of concern in their feelings. 8030930s. Or number we can squeeze a couple calls in before the break and then after that it's all you and Todd Hathaway he's high school English teacher and -- -- -- I dissenting member. Of governor Cuomo's common core commitments and 8030930 let's kick it up with Mike in Cheektowaga high. Good morning. Good morning I think everyone is accurate look further and into the common core I am a teacher myself. This is really come down the privatization. Of America's education. Local control has been lost and -- with the corporation. I know a lot about the common core it is incredibly. Inappropriate on many levels. Com I'm not -- union I am a teacher I'd love to come on and tell the truth about everything one day. All -- it it's really people really need to get involved and take a look at the content inappropriate on -- level. And thoughtful appropriate arm practically in some instances. Mike what when when your call is done here I wanna put on hold. And we'll get your number to follow up on that because it sounds like average on the program before you called it sounds like you would be an articulate spokespersons talk. It's not about me you know this is not a publicity thing this is not -- mr. McClellan appeared a lot of support across New York State preview. We've been watching it closely. You are mr. Bennett they're reaching comes on first scripted and tailored interview he'd never asked any questions by parents. -- or the citizens. Our education has been people so much it is being -- -- -- -- care and education. They had the monopoly over my cause actual. It is utterly ridiculous. America any questioning your -- school taxes until I. Let's take a look at bring their curriculum back to America. We private corporation and our classroom. You are someone out here some of the spoke out before against pierce in the that the contractor that has developed the modules for. New York State Todd was that part of what the commission addressed. -- Christian did not address that at all which I see again as one -- a failure of the commission that we -- not address the substantive issues impacting our classrooms the report as written. Does not change the dynamic of our class in which is the most important part of what we do. There are some districts around your sweet home I know has -- decided not to go with the appears in module of the state template per say. And they are moving ahead to develop their own implementation. Again there's that word that seems to be the bugaboo implementation. Of common core a better way Mike and Cheektowaga what you think you know we'll get tot. Well you know you can pick Clinton on the mark on the European can control everything they control the book they control every foot and this student evaluation. The mean estimate that the teacher valuation the technology to deliver the ball so you move them to travel component that opener. It's unbelievable. You know I am not against -- I -- I'm not against the dark and I'm not against the valuation. I look at one company control at all. And more important market mechanisms in that process could -- perpetually at our input that the test scores of the quarter last year what are they predicting this year. I'm thing isn't incredibly. An incredible my Little -- -- operation here. And you're going to appear to include all looks so many facets of. There's really ridiculous. It's apparently put -- in their industry another business. They're incompetent. Putin education. I want a lot of promotion. All right Larry I've got all will get your phone number during the break because yeah I know you've been an articulate a spokesperson on this issue before. Glad to have you aboard -- stay right there. Before we move to that break. Talk about what he was talking about that doesn't sound like it's your biggest complaint against this but certainly. -- can -- you know -- you know the issue of Pearson is an underlying factor in Paris and Pearson is a huge educational conglomerate that produces school software to school textbooks. I'm not -- -- -- it which I'm sure it's involved in the student testing pieces but I we can't deny you know the largesse of that corporation. When again I think it speaks to is. The fact that Helen Fisher was ruled out it allows for this kind of material and not to say that much wrong but. Well you know we've heard all stories are across educational landscape about the difficulties in this conspiracy here respect literature there. What's going on and that's a failure are very educational leadership -- that we allow this to occur. That because we never to come in the value of this program we never particular value assessments can never calculated the value. Of the comical learning standards and gave trying to get comfortable with us it was just given down to us take it or leave it and that's that. All right we'll be back after this more to come its hardline on news radio 930 WB yeah. It's hard line on news radio 930 WVU and we are talking about governor -- commission on common core. One of the local members that dissented from their final report is with us Todd halfway. I wanna jump back to late February Governor Cuomo was in town to announce the big economic development deal that I BM. But afterwards he spoke to reporters a little bit about common core. And basically says full speed ahead. -- -- -- On the court is the right direction toward our states have been doing and of course the country. It is a standard curriculum. By most experts. Which is a major improvement in terms of the curriculum. So it's not the wrong decision to do it how they did it I believe is the problem. This was very different than the past curriculum. And it was almost dramatic through the system. Children would give grades are we're in the ninety's -- -- -- with grades that we're in the sixties. And the parents weren't properly briefed the students were properly briefed the consequences of what those lower grades might mean. Wasn't adequately handle. You know I have a daughter in high school lose. Please go to college those test scores are very very important. And you competing not just -- students in the state he's competing against students from the so if your state scores are much less in another state the -- here. So I think the implementation. Of it was more. And I'm working with the legislature. About slowing. The the actual race. Movement towards income corporate colleagues and -- Now so much of what he said there echoes what you say Todd Hathaway and yet you're a dissenter tell me what was in the report. About implementation of -- a slowdown. -- he says slowdown but. The panel's report that says -- -- the -- changes to afterward and say we cancel out the tertiary education and said we canceled out because this is that the implementation of the standards -- federal requirement known for their inflation it opens the door for funding the standards came out of National Governors Association okay not a factor required. But isn't there's some testing is if Roger isn't there some linkage to. Funding of education from the federal government as long as they implement this. Indeed there is that there's a permanent race the top that you have to use student achievement as part of a teacher valuation. By the using the standards is not necessary part we're RTT. There is some there are some of the language and they want you to do that. But it's tennis or something you have to do. In you can change it as you need these are not given to us from on high they're not written on stone Moses not come down from mount Sinai with these common course standards. It's a here you go we have ten we have these industry for now and forever. You know human beings don't operate that way. But these standardized testing component of that swear federal and state standards -- that's word you know becomes difficult. You know we're testing herself isn't a bad thing how high school teacher I deal with high stakes testing an annual basis I teach reach and global I teach advanced placement world history here in European history. A very come to a high stakes testing. That makes sense that develop an appropriate he's a 16718 year old they can drive a car there shouldn't be able to vote they can go fight -- war they should be with a public congress things. Asking nine year old so seven year old eight year old that they have to be found with the -- testing is a developmental absurdity they're 9101112. Result. These students at that age level change rapidly overnight so the tests themselves are patently unreliable. Measuring there achievement level. At at a point where they're about to change makes no sense. So it makes really no sense and it's good to do to giving to give a you know I kind of yard marker but and you attach that to a teacher's evaluation and make -- there any principles they wish and invite in published in the Buffalo News in other newspapers around the state. You've now increased the consequences of that task which is meaningless that student mean it doesn't mean into the fourth grader there is no. Benefit to doing well there is no congress are doing poorly in Washington replaced in two and it the remedial class or need it offers some improvement. There's no incentive for that students perform well besides. The emotional and moral pressure of of administrators and teachers and governors and legislators to perform on those tasks. What if there was something more like a regents exam at the end of the year if it actually have bearing on. Developing a baseline for the student letting you know more about what that kid knows affecting their kids grade would that then. Using an -- you describe diagnostic testing and that's a completely appropriate way to use testing for young levels to diagnose and prescribe. You know pathways for education cannot these tests be used for votes to measure you and imagine the -- Cleared for both yeah I'm now. What -- simple because they can't be because now you've Katie perverted it when you ciresi diagnostic testing. Great so you know that child may not be doing well in this area. But because it should now now now you've taken -- diagnostic approach and I say why need you know we use that -- -- accuses two year program to teacher. Now that teacher wants that student performing a higher level and maybe beyond where they can and is paralyzed from the kids operating at the development popular. When could you look at New York City which did this from 2007 through as -- nine. In this kind of using tests you their gauge teacher effectiveness in their -- a word to word bonus money that they dumped into the Mayor Bloomberg said the system doesn't work. It's to everywhere it's been tried this is not a new system -- -- concentric great Britain and -- side. Using student achievement and tasks too if I were teachers is not appropriate and there are districts. Have had a large number of students some of you in the children of board members. Opt out these tests you in instead of Johnny taking it Johnny just it doesn't take it. What does that mean to the overall pool of ten kids in your class you know judged by nine so what. It's gonna skew the results automatically and I think it reveals a fundamental failure of the common -- rollout which -- never established value. All of the standards and assessments to parents and students that is the heart and sold failure of this program. If we can't articulate to parents how what we're doing or -- -- help your son or your daughter. Then what are we doing and that's a fundamental flaw we knew that we we violated trust we never have a value. And cause of this Haddix and we're doubling down so what happens next what do you want to see and what you think will happen. Where I want to see what what I want to see primarily is to see the New York State Senate do with a near -- and they did. Which is adopting two year moratorium on the use of student assessment. In in the of their plight of the common -- -- in teacher wishing he gives every time to. Fix things to improve things for teachers develop a bank of lessons because I got this module the state produced it doesn't work from my kids and -- something -- Trying something when you try something there's a possibly may fail that in work I'm -- -- -- something you know it takes time to do it. He just cancer Ellis and one day innocent in a snapping her change do you think that'll happen -- the so come along. I'm I'm really hopeful I'm very hopeful we had some a lot of support across the state and I'm hopeful that we get in your state senate to do and that's gonna have hoped would happen next few weeks. I'm because what had I feel as a school teacher from my in my middle school colleagues both the teachers and principals stock between the the rock of a CD in the fury of the opt out parents. I feel for them they're going to be an awful position they're being placed -- two groups. Mean squished in if you think of any further. What and the people third and fourth in Alison ones who knocks out in the -- enterprising middle school boy not the most able people on the planet. Say hey Dave aren't doing anything and we do them to Seles and you know undermined her protest in process it becomes is a snowballing effect in -- and where is the value wears the trust we need -- where overtime Todd thanks stopping -- thank you Todd happily east were high school teacher.