News radio 930 WB EF. I watched the -- and -- with great. -- yeah. India the whole look. -- anxious and my brother. Maybe you're better off not having the surgery but taking the pain -- what is generally feel stupid. -- apple people in -- The. I'm not only I don't know what this. Good. Kind of evicted people know me. I'm very happy when he's ready at 930 you know I have one simple request. I'm Sean. Always make me laugh it has -- I'm news radio I'm thirty WB and that's all I've got some I got some people call all about all educating -- -- I'll take your calls. So take your calls I mean I really would like to hear from -- people are corrections officers and people who used to be inmates. Inmates are people -- are. I have a lot more sympathy for people were inmates because they did something stupid to themselves then. People who committed an act of violence against somebody else because in those cases my sympathy is always going to be with the victim of violent crime. Not all crimes or whoever -- And a lot of crimes are crimes. And really the ultimate victim is the person who ends up in prison because they ended up being the victim of themselves. Anyway. Let's get back to the calls all also on an -- on a different wrinkle which is totally unconnected. Are you sick of winter yet. Or are you just love and -- by the way nobody skis anymore it's all about snow. Here's here in the buffalo WB and Jerry you are on the and a tells a little bit about that Jerry. -- strategic. And Eric. The possibility that by this summer job teaching -- and I don't know why they say right thousand ultra -- occasional note everybody needs an education. I mean how many people or this or go to jail -- its case. I'm guessing zero. Well well well a little I don't know if it is figures it's that expensive. For a that the -- And -- taken. And make 40000 dollars a year. You know four -- infantry indications -- instinct to create efficient. No. Anybody I mean let's put it this way anybody who will be willing to do that isn't going to do very well with or without an education because basically. Why do you really need to go into it because it would be the ultimate in stupid decision making. I mean if your idea. Now don't you ask the question I'm going to answer the question. And -- the answer would be who would subject themselves to shot were rape. Over the course of four to six years for college degree who would subject themselves to add food 46 years for college degree. Who would subject themselves to breathing and all the sights smells and sounds of -- Four to six years for college degree you show me somebody who's willing to do that I'll show -- somebody who's gonna fail in life with or without a college degree. Our little determination and needs. Get away from the inner city. Any you know you saw -- -- up a search -- and then whatever you go to jail house in Ocean City for thirty years. He come out here on alert the but you know here is that can't be. Are they can't hold against you which you Kamal what vegetation maybe. Immediately put ahead of somebody who think go to jail remote. I think the idea that somebody would commit a crime. To get a free college degree. What are decreased the idea. That depends on where -- -- -- I'm matrimony with a nonprofit colleges I mean. Okay let me -- Larry let it let me you know without naming a number let me just kind of describe. What it costs to get a college degree these days. I -- it is stripped naked while water on the phone extra -- I -- -- bend over as far as you possibly can and want to put your hands flat on the floor and election to spread your legs. Now I want to imagine a very very large man behind you that's pretty much what it cost to get a college degree and. A lot. And it may be different -- change the -- to keep it like it is and you're. I wasn't talking about prison I was talking about the real world. -- -- -- Was talking about the real -- that expensive. These kids are coming out of school with 50000 dollars in -- and a sociology degree. -- in the morning. This in the mornings. Well very it's very kind of -- I still do a program of the morning's except I'm the only one who hears me. -- -- -- I'm glad you I'm glad you called let me just give our question you started out by saying your art teacher who taught inmates at Attica. Did you find anything rewarding. About that now Attica is a maximum security state prison so you're gonna have the violent violent inmates at -- Unlike some of the other points. And knowledgeable about a couple of -- -- there as a board member council that rule was put in you know I mean is there. -- it was actual management particularly. But I Iowa. -- have been art teacher I -- the people are teachers are specialists are people who have problems okay. They really it show an art and -- I I don't know why art and indeed navy and tried it. I -- so many children in the inner city and sheds some -- people from the industry it appearances. Fill in the neighborhood everything come back to me like twenty years later successful. And the printing company or our work -- -- their culture and interior design. But but my question issues. Did you get nothing out of it in terms of reward for yourself in terms of knowing knowing that you were making a difference for people who. Really. And and you know have been forgotten. By society through fault of their own they've been forgotten by society yet you were there when nobody else would be probably even their own families turned on them in some cases. -- -- -- -- I'll play and apparently. -- my other vacancies people who hungering. You're. Very you know they are now. He accidentally burned down. Sure until people you know you know all. Horrible things that. And the people usually get lost in the system that situation. Mexico they turned and instead. And you know Iowa all along about -- There were -- are there and music majors are majors. Teacher you know I mean the -- goes out. Don't -- start and -- educational system we don't poll shows on the educational system and how screwed up and act that is how we try to pretend that everybody is equal with if with equal abilities and talents when it just isn't the case but. I I assure you enough for those views very all -- gone off the deep -- -- for those of you work Christian who keep telling me that because I'm not I'm going to hell. I -- ask -- so where would Jesus -- today in all likelihood with EP. Ask your question would he be at Attica talking inmates. War would EP in New York City talking to Donald Trump I submit to you that he beat -- you're talking to inmates. -- Well losing either or choice it was in the ubiquitous choice but -- could try to. In Ben Salem pretty good bad lie about it instead watched our. He won here there and everywhere else fans act. That was The Beatles later on. I gotta go man thanks for the call. -- right. His ego. -- stroked. By the positive feedback you got in -- No I see I always find that interest. How some people that look I don't want us throw stones here about throw stones. But. How some people insist I am going to hill. Because I go to Jamaica on medications. Yet. If Jesus were alive. I know I noticed that the myself you know. He'd probably be talking to the guys at Attica and not the guys -- Fifth Avenue in New York City because that's who he wants. So is it really so preposterous to suggest that what this last caller did was actually doing a Christian and a just putting out there not to make it a spiritual show. But I always wonder about things like. Our let's go to mark. On W and actually in others guide Syracuse but I can't see is named because the computer -- -- Joseph in Syracuse on WB and Joseph welcome to the show talked to me what are your circumstances. We have described them by and maybe your -- of Angola. Toward that area of from the book -- remote in my life awful for a -- overall Merck and in my fifties I ended up. And that for the first time member up go to uproot them there before that I don't have been like a big crumbled around -- Republican. But during my one year in prison. I fumble that took the extremely fair situation group tumbled -- -- well over one. They're probably best two but the younger kids they're poor reporting tribunal was just. Unbelievable -- -- grew -- them. -- And that but one thing to -- question about it but it is something you can do pretty people I would really. In our support when oh boy I agreed that taxpayers. -- -- -- paper work. But it got there a marvelous. I'm not gonna ask you because you didn't volunteer the information -- guy goes his entire life and that ends up in prison in his fifties none of my business unless you wanna talk about it but. As far as the degree. You know earning a degree at taxpayer expense. Is that basically throwing money down a rat hole or do you see for both the inmates and the guards a positive coming. What I can understand it would be about money wasted I mean I think government waste money every member beverage very government terrible that. But I'm looking at them the big move and probably young -- only 25 -- thirty year old I think they can be saved and a college education could do that -- obviously baby can hurt them from purple and long convert their book blue blob that thousands of people in jail or figure cropped up you know. Million about a million Americans -- -- There's about a million or more Americans work currently incarcerated. Our Google made about a third of many many thousands who could be released very big because the boat while the froehlich who -- terrible property -- -- cracked. This story that it -- just could never believe what it would never believed to thwart. And to program. Other real world can -- -- -- call hold -- wanna talk more about this because you know talk about a guy who's gonna want eighty in his life. At least on two occasions I I'm always fascinated by your kind of story but I am also fascinated by traffic and people try to get homers Alan Harris. At news radio 930 WBE ant you know I actually want to talk about whether winter was driving -- walk yet. But. We've got some very interesting calls from people now Cuomo the governor works that. He wants to make -- eight. A reality. That prison inmates have college degrees the ability to earn an associates degree work bachelor's degree. On the taxpayers nickel where they're at school now mark our story Jim is that I'm 11. -- -- Online one -- Sunday they're gonna fixes it's only been twelve years in the computer will get -- one of these days. But that Joseph is from Syracuse -- in -- -- right now he did a stretch and basically he entered as a guy in his middle age. And he he basically what he saw there was kind of a wake up call for him and here's an interesting idea that. You know make these inmates accountable when they get I'll were paying back the system in other words don't make it a gift make it all Walt. Which I think Europe is borderline brilliant tour. -- -- -- -- -- I have to some Bernard pointed now also owner college. And I think these people important about the same age -- to referred to preferably if they have Motrin. There's nothing short -- and good to them reduce -- -- that. So it is something we can do everything we could duplicate college education. -- will be replica. Do you think based in your experience are we talking 5% 10% 20% of the -- you think have an actual shot at making a contribution. Society probably why I'm out right I'm Robert. Merit pay up I thought we wondered what you were tired Joseph I'm glad you called thank you very much. For 24 WB yeah. On the ground yeah I do okay thank you. Most do. God. As for myself. It was there was a compilation album and this was one of the songs on the Beach Boys compilation album endless summer because we're at this winter right now. And so you are a lot of a lot of it. While others have -- it up to about year with winter. I have to confess. You know it's winter so much bothers me. Is it's my last at -- That comes with winter because it is the first of all the years. Well my snowblower yeah baby it's not tomorrow. One poll of its parts Yair. Remember the -- -- -- to do it. But anyway and my -- does. And now. It's not nearly as much fun as it was back in November. Or December in fact I dare say that I look at the snow the driveway now that I basically have two words that I I say to -- it. -- But it. 8030 lead thirty start at 310616. WB EMI. I was roundly insulted over the weekend by somebody hadn't seen -- quite some time she came over she looked at my driveway her first words her very first words and they were. Yeah well my mother does a better job shoveling then you do in her -- like eighty years -- -- Anyway -- for a 35 at news radio 930 WB yet so anyway how we with you know I've got two topics on the -- -- one of them involves governor Cuomo's proposal to have by taxpayer funding of college educations for prison inmates. Now. Ladies and gentlemen there prison inmates in the prison inmates. And my concern libertarian view. Prison. Let me just share with -- briefly and this is not exactly breaking new ground here have talked about this stuff before. One other reasons why we have so many people in prison. Is because we have an underfunded mental health system I've been driving this bandwagon since the 1980s. We. Refuse in our country to acknowledge this gorge that is mental illness and if you think it can't happen in your family. Your family must hide secrets better than other families because it happens in almost every family. And the problem is. We are in denial. Over America's mental illness epidemic. And it. If you don't deal with mental illness mental illness because of the self -- the behavior of the person who is mentally ill. Becomes eight criminal. Situation. And then instead of putting people in therapy and rehabilitation. And in the proper mental health program we put him in prison. And really their only crime generally. Is. They were trying to sell Medicare. I've heard this story so many times. Believe me I know of what I speak. I've heard from families just like yours. Clarence and Austin and west Seneca and Williams ago. It is no risk factor of persons. I've used that phrase a zillion times. And bottom liners. We have a lot of people in prison. And there in prison because. We failed to recognize you root causes. Of criminal behavior what -- deemed criminal behavior which is our society. Burying its head in the sand basically about mental illness. As somebody once that never get crazy on the weekend or holiday. Because. It's good luck trying to get help some. -- There's that lurking in the background. Now as far as presents our concern. Now there are people -- in prison who ought to be in prison. Because they have a demonstrable record of not being able to play well with others. There's as psychopaths socio paths they have no empathy they have no motion they have no human feeling and they never will have an. In short they deserve and belong in prison for the safety of the arrested -- Whether they are mentally ill or not. They simply are you redeemable human beings who need to be locked up. I can certainly except that. I don't like it but it's affect the life. Now as far as educating people in prison. I don't personally see much point educating somebody who's -- of life without parole. I don't see -- help a lot of point in educating somebody who's -- 25 to life with a judge's recommendation that the person never get released. Today I don't see much -- to. But if somebody's door and three year five or ten years stretch. I understand the wisdom. Of wanting them to leave -- degree. But. As one of our previous callers pointed out I wish -- thought of us. Why don't we simply do it likely would do it for anybody else with a student loan idea in other words it -- free. You will be paying it back once you do become a dues paying member of society dues defined as taxes dues to -- as you've got an income. You know I can -- yet. I can certainly -- bet. Also. For those who believe that it ought to be free. Well. I don't see other New York State taxpayer can afford any more freebies. For other people. So all instead of adding to the taxpayers' burden. What's wrong with the idea of making out of state I'm -- illegal. Immigrants who now pay the in state tuition rate. What's wrong with making them pay the out of state tuition rate and using the balance. To pay for this program to educate prison inmates. It's a wonderful opportunity for the illegals to learn that. There's a time to contribute to society as well as to pick from society. I'm kind of being tongue in -- but I think I'm making an excellent point. 8030930. Also. Winter have you had enough. Are you waving the white flag which nobody will see because there's too much -- slow. Do we need to do this well aren't. If you -- see any traffic issues out -- major traffic problems and we've had an accident -- a while zoo today so far. The phone number to report the major traffic messes 80303218030321. And that's for the major ones the minor ones will sort themselves out. The major ones were traffic is backing up. We always appreciate your help then. Now we're just getting into the snarling teeth the bulk of afternoon drive. Let's get back to the calls on WB editors mark in buffalo mark kilo. I don't are marked. All. I'm about traction -- -- this labor work I've been doing a straight on time like 26 years true. And now that's got to be a tough job. It's not so bad it's it's a good job I really really like where do you in a maximum security medium security would work I work -- stamina medium now. It's a good place -- corporate reports of an -- over twenty years so law. They used to get college in the -- Tree and it didn't work and so I don't know like Cuomo would think it would work now. You know I tried look at that up but I could find no research that indicated that this had any efficacy to a whatsoever. Tell us what they used to do in the ninety's because I can't find any reference to it on the. -- lie -- was -- for college or anybody who wanted to sign up and -- to be out not that many people. I didn't -- that wasn't very many -- -- written well. You'd think they would be flocking to -- a second man I would do anything I could get out of the cell. Well -- There's -- programs com com. This -- available now. I'm lying if you make -- -- I'd -- course I know Koppel in May be who. What I've done that online -- you and I like or Sunday. They'd have to pay for it it's like 3000 dollars us about something like that and they get all the stops and hand remains certain at all out so. They are able to do that and com. I really don't see them taking advantage of it right I see them taking the courses. Maybe don't look good for the full court but not to really better lives and that's kind of what they do with these days and which regular school. -- I have a question Korea and I don't want to get far afield here but. You and I both know the Parole Board is staffed by political hacks and appointees who worked in between elective offices correct. Doesn't -- kind of (%expletive) you off -- your future as a corrections officer and the people with whom you are gonna deal on a daily basis you're life is basically -- as are the -- lives by a bunch of political -- with zero experience in technology or criminology. Absolutely capsule they don't I know a lot of inmate. I get close in -- our allotted and great. You know and they get all riled up for the full court hearing and may only get ready and everything. And they sit there burgers ordinances they're very small it and you know of these these people. All the cute of their lives and a lot of them go to -- look up they just you know the continued -- -- -- and that you know early tomorrow looking at and so. Bear to think that looking at them they're gonna turn to stone. And then they go to church on Sundays and talk about what great Christians they are. -- now OK I have a question for you to do this for almost thirty years now. What percentage of the inmates with whom you've had experiences and I guess I'm gonna take the medium security places the maximum security places and I'll I'll put them all together. What percentage are truly evil bad people who should never be allowed to see the light of day again. Verses those who simply screwed up there doing their time. And they're gonna be released and they shouldn't be a problem. You know Tom has -- have been doing this I can't really honestly. We answer that because. Lot of times they've got peaceful. Although they are just not really sure who they are they. Everybody -- double slot and president and nobody's really seen. Everybody is somebody that. And like the guy who. Make the Parole Board and I haven't figured if you're you're gonna do all right out I think you're gonna get suddenly change. And get this two in the parking that's about. Like merit but you're gonna make it now. I could see with the change that you probably not gonna make you. And they just you know I continue to get people that way. -- -- what do you mean what do you think it is going the easy thing to say is that convicts made great con man. But it's got to go deeper than. Omnia I don't know I I don't I'd argue that right with the matter offering operator out because they're. That's what you are now. There's a lot of violence going on in the jail right now -- some slumps forward some of their. And the armed there's just a lot of incidents going on -- and -- ball commented that blank for the medication -- this incredible it's like. Most of the -- Are highly erratic. -- We're psychotropic medications. Our medication mine used to be like an hour about two hours now it's three hours long at night and they -- they line -- Lineup dramatic. Now in your time on the job have you noticed an improvement in behavior with all of the other medications that are given to the inmates presumably to deal with their depression or behavioral issues. No not not really an improvement arts it's gotten it's gotten more really -- had a good start to. You know with the overcrowding. In the and in closing in a Coke also president I think and -- that are -- With this thing about about giving cause I just I don't see how we could. It's the Connecticut political move for him I mean really you're gonna give free college and and -- in look what organic -- You can't afford to hear that working class Catholic so -- What does it have to prove it to me one of the basics is you have to prove that it actually has worked elsewhere to achieve the stated mission of the lower to. Or or the beat her contention that it's gonna lower recidivism hail mark all of us because you use your guy obviously knows what he's talking about. I've never been in prison. You're even inside a prison and jail yes but never prisons so hold on because. I definitely gonna get some insight from. 447 news radio 930 WB -- Yet the signature on 27 degrees what he wanted to of that your house and do your driveway to note John and I are almost neighbors. 8030 -- thirty is via phone number it's 27 degrees right now. Let's get back to mark in buffalo corrections officer we're talking about our governor Cuomo's idea. Two way give taxpayer funded. College educations to prison inmates and mark you know again I know that this has been done before work. But -- heaven -- all the time finding any real. Empirical data on whether or not. It actually does what it's supposed to do keep people out of prison once they get out. Yeah I I I can tell you that's on our -- Like as far as help on outdoor job it's gonna have zero in fact some com. Since there's there's like a seven player programs critical thing is though so it's it's -- up their jobs at all. That's that's -- us that. So there there's no way to take this. And basically use it as a carrot to improve inmate behavior. Our maybe to an extent just like any of the programs like they have you know. Some and -- a good job they get out like player so but it's -- work outside the welcome back problems. We do things like that so lot and reflected get that but it's that. To try to use and don't get their behavior that are most guys don't want to lose those jobs. As a as a -- it would just thought dom. As for for the sport that they don't even. It's hard not to get on the liberty. I really think. I don't see it in the affecting that many people does not then it and it's what I'm among other jobs like it that far. I've been at this job for awhile and I don't see anybody. Wanted to take advantage of of a freak out education -- it was for it because they're not motivated by. We know its interest in which is set about the mental illness and about people lining up for their beds because. He really does go hand in hand with one of my crusades over the past this several decades which has been. For better dealing with mental illness in the community advocates that they give you treat mental illness better. The crime pattern is gonna take care of itself. Gregory arm to tell you are where the gel that a market that. Used to being Ahmed told. A mental -- and Tom. You know that's called down and what we're all your golf targeted -- parliament buildings administrator and where they got it -- -- Under the street or halfway houses -- so would have helped so many so all I know that they can go -- and we're reps proper. Adaptable they go to Allentown and the cluster around Allentown and then you know people wonder why they got to step over guys in the street who need medication but they're never gonna give it is -- ever gonna comply anyway. So I mean it really it really is America's shame and I'm glad. I'm glad you called -- mark stay safe and of course know what the four words that were the most important words you ever learned as a corrections officer let me see if I got my let me see if I have my corrections officer trivia correctly before words you'll -- at the beginning -- your career. It starts with the word don't. I'll turn. Your. -- Your attic that kind of that instinctual against. Well for some people isn't it and -- -- got to learn the bigger brother. And -- were -- at a -- spoke -- a corner on the side in the back. -- stay in the same spot. On Arafat. -- -- ledger called and then I really appreciate your perspective -- I find it interesting that it is your belief that most inmates even if this program was in fact offered wouldn't take advantage of it anyway there already a number of inmate enrichment programs and as you said most inmates just don't seem to have the wherewithal or the ambition. Two -- pursue that kind of a the degree cell. I appreciate your input for much thank you. Thanks for. All my -- jitters market and by the way if your former inmate and you wanna chime in you know what I. You'll enter a no judgment zone. I mean look there are people who've done stretches because their violent. And hopefully they are still in prison. But I know that many view who get a stretch. You were probably your own worst enemy so -- going to be a judgment -- you've paid your debt to society. You don't owe us anything but I would like your perspective for 56 at WB yeah.