Dec 1, 2013|
Author Ken Stern, The United Way's Bob Morgan & Mike Billoni from the Food Bank
Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
Before we're done we'll have someone from the united way here we'll have someone for the food bank here but I wanted to start out with author -- stern. He is the author of with charity for all why charities are failing and a better way to give. We'd like to have you on the conversation to if you could join us that would be great 8030930. In order to give we sometimes need to know how these charities operate. Maybe there are issues you have with the way they operate do you want to see them do things differently. 8030930s. -- number either things that you want to praise them about on May be just need to know before you give. We'll pass it all along but let's delve into the conversation purse with Ken thanks -- -- Ken stern. Show the book title with charity for all why charities are failing and a better way to give let me start right there do you think charities are failing failing a lot. Well I think so look initiative that back and look at sort of the broad cross through charities they're one point one million cherries in the country. One point five trillion revenues. Enormously important were born Marie died -- care of our young mature world. But there I think that's sectors deeply challenged. Very few controlled they're actually. Effective in delivering. The the services and the results they that we all want. And I think that's the question is archer he's failing. Partisan it because most of them actually don't really know. Very few can show their effective does that mean they just don't measure. It doesn't mean they don't for the measure than action by and large not rewarded for measuring. So they don't. And what sort of -- booking room where the book starts is the story of mortician -- give well out of New York which is the best charity about later in the country. A -- the only one that really do deep dive -- to charities. And of 2000 charities that looked over looked out over the ten years resistance. They they recommend exactly three. To me that the others are are are bad or. Are doing the wrong thing it means they can't act. Actually meet the standards that give laws set up for showing that -- effective but we don't measure they don't cut themselves in a brilliant third party about -- And he makes it very hard to know. Where they give and how to get. Are you talking major big national charities or even. The smaller local things that we have been counter in any given city across the country. -- to a -- divide them into institutional mostly I read about the big national charities. I can -- exactly but roughly. 90%. Of those charitable revenues in the country go to roughly about 2% of charities. That's who most right about that for the other 98%. The real challenge is. They don't have the resource to actually test to measure themselves. More of the one -- -- for the troubled sector is you can't spend money on overhead almost have to go to service and cherries are punished for. Putting in resource in open Bogut really important it's its resurgence testing and it's it's employee training infrastructure -- the thing that actually do great organizations. And one of the challenge I think. Is. That the charitable sector is and allowed. It actually beaten beaten up for output for putting the resources to where they need to go to build. Other organizations and actually. Make differences and people like. So to your mind the yardstick that -- give her her donor would want to use is not. The idea of how much goes to administrative cost how much is actually on the ground. It terribly destructive. Way to evaluate organizations. And that's we've all been part and of one of those sort of the the big that we've all been taught that. The best way to evaluate charities how efficient they are competition he actually doesn't -- -- maybe even in adversely relevant to effective. Because organization that doesn't invest itself has probably not a big -- Just think about from -- -- and we these are these about building their organizations you don't look for profit side you have to do if invest yourself get -- that strategy. The market researcher -- -- testing of the best part though. And the company doesn't go -- go out of business. Is it it's -- -- to say -- not for profit side but we just think about different. What's a better measurement than other than looking at. How much they're spending on administrative costs what can I do. Well also at some of the EU limit them tell you sort of a story of relations have really tests themselves some more things to write a book about organization a lot of it is about the challenge -- -- but not for profit sector faces. But elsewhere about -- -- usually do well and the nurse failed partnership who. Really -- themselves have social and so. Usability is out of Memphis is the book is the nation's largest. I use services countries helped it helped kids who -- -- -- just just as -- juvenile justice and dropped a school. And they track each kid come to the program for years afterwards to see whether they've -- schools whether they. Probably the law. And they've adjusted their program accordingly if -- be. Difficult changes because. They kept themselves to challenge themselves. And that the network solutions that we need to support make sure. There is successful -- that makes a difference to. How much of this could become a self fulfilling prophecy if -- a charity. And I say my mission is acts I've been set up my yard sticks in my measurements to see how well I'm doing -- I can kind of manipulated by defining myself really narrowly in defining my yardsticks and certainly can't -- Yes so so it was hard stuff. You know on the slope outside what we look the bottom lines in and see -- you're making money here. Or not and there's a certain. Black and white green white clarity to that it's much more difficult -- on the fourth on the not for profit side but also more important. So. The first step is actually setting up those benchmarks and evaluations. Methods. And you think that. Organizations could -- it but frankly right now very few charities actually do that first. Stop most of them things -- what's so that first step as you get more sophisticated more independent valuation methodologies. On the marketplace and to -- itself. And real briefly let's go to the second part of the title -- Ken stern the author of with charity for all white charities are failing and a better way to give. Talk to me than about a better way to give. Yes so again we started beginning which is what how people get. And that social science data on this is actually extraordinary and extraordinarily revealing. The average donor. Puts them exactly zero hours zero minutes. Per year in their research. -- for charities. They give -- habit that -- moderate to give two different charities we give the president easiest to give -- at work. And they don't look for the best and most effective charities that actually sort of extraordinary thing given the fact that the average American family puts him about 2500 dollars a year per household. To charity -- protection extraordinarily generous system we have people extraordinarily generous in ways they aren't anywhere else in the world and yet. People research television and to cause they leave for home that -- we both borders they don't research research the best ways to invest in charities. And a better way to give I think start to get the -- questions -- most effective charity. And investing time and energy trying to find those great charities and -- them for doing great work. Again it sounds difficult because your your initial promises they're not measuring. If I'm doing research is a donor how can I find stuff when they're not when they're not necessarily collecting that stuff I would need to make an informed decision. If -- -- questions so. My in my view here is that look that the charities respond to the marketplace. Right now they don't research and test because. But what's there and do it and actually punishes them when they do. If the market place would charities like everyone else response to market pressure. And donors. Whether their institutional donors individual donors government don't start asking for that can better believe centuries ago start investing in things that matter. All right good stuff Ken thanks for joining us today. -- that's Ken stern the author of with charity for all why charities are failing and a better way to get. He started out the discussion now we'll pick it up with some of the people down in the trenches with Bob Morgan he's chief operating officer of the united way. Little bit later we'll discuss needs and what the community certainly has out there in terms of things you can give to my body will be here from the food bank is well. I would love to get you in on the conversation along the way 8030930. Is the number. In order to give what do you need to know there are certainly questions that you we can that try to answer this morning. 803 on -- thirty Bob Morgan thanks for stopping by thanks thanks for having. Do you agree with Ken stern the previous segments premise that charities are failing and my any of them maybe not you guys but many of them. Are doing the appropriate measurements the appropriate accountability measures. Yeah I think it's it it twofold challenge for a lot of charities it's. Hard to drum up the resources to do that measurement as you mentioned and I think that when. Organizations do that it's challenging. To then raise the resources to take effective interventions to scale. Ideally. How does a charity -- accountability in effect he said he didn't necessarily like the yardstick out. How much of the money goes to the cause and how much -- it goes to administration what kind of things can you do to show the public hey look were were OK here. I think a much better way to measure effectiveness in a nonprofit. He is that measuring the effectiveness of the program intervention so. Now if your goal is to get kids to read. And then you have to test the -- on the other hand how how would this work. Yes -- them in a perfect world you'd hire a third party. To do a program evaluation. And and -- Three tests at a portion of food and folks that you're serving you know you mentioned kids reading see where they are at the beginning of the program. And and then see where they are at the conclusion of your intervention. And that really is the value that you're delivering to your community. But what about the idea. That I don't I want my money to go to the kid in the class from I don't want it to go to some some pretty he's active at the united way. What what about the using the yardstick of how much of the charity's money. Is on the ground. Yeah I think that Adam. Listen anyone who works in the nonprofit world wants to run. Yet it's an important concept. But I think that we need to get past that a little bit and start to think about them. You know investing. In taking effective programming to scale. And taking any sort of business endeavor to scale requires infrastructure. And in for example the startup world investing in infrastructure is lauded. And we certainly treat charities with the a different set of you know impressions that we have about making that sort of investments of to have a great program it requires great infrastructure investing in things like technology good people. Great programs don't exist in isolation they require great infrastructure to operate and in in the case of the united way you have how many member agencies here with how many different missions that we make investments in that over fifty different organizations. And 83 programs. In our community. Okay oh I wanna get the the difference between those let's say. Rough math here fifty and fifty plus were talking a 130 give or take all total. It's at fifty programs that operate 83 programs. Amongst OK so sometimes we're making multiple investments. Into the same organization in the best world. And I realize this whenever practical do we then need. Fifty and 83 different yardsticks. Sometimes. It's of their program. Interventions that are similar that might use the same performance metrics. But it's. A lot of the types of metrics you would want to use -- -- -- -- similar so you -- example what kind of -- -- pick any program and telling how they. How they assess whether they're doing their job. Yes so. You know one example would be we. Worked with a group of community agencies this past summer for a program called on time for nine it was a group of eighth grade students who were. Not. Scheduled to get the great promotion to ninth grade we did a summer intervention in more than 90% of the kids super. Who participated in the program. That medal of the requirements required to go from eighth grade to grade so that's. Pretty easy measurement to make given. The scope of what -- programs -- and that was picked because this community has a specific need for that there was research on both the front and then back and yeah and that's really a lot of what united way tries to do this to identify. We have limited resources ourselves -- united way in in the community generally. We're trying to. Identified. Areas of greatest need in our community. In addition we're looking for places to make investments where we can get high leverage. So if there is already resource is being put into a particular challenge that are community us. We'd be more likely to let that intervention happened we're looking for unique places where we can and. See you try to find the stuff that's not being done that's for 8030930s. The number we're talking about charity and giving. Bob Morton is here he's the chief operating officer of the united way of buffalo and Erie county. Little bit after the news break we probably don't have time to squeeze a call in here now below left the district we're gonna go right down the phone lines and now would be a great chance to get -- Are there things you need to know to donate there might be questions I'm at this one of those topics where I think everyone has. Something they need to know something that perhaps they've always wondered about we've got a guy that can help give you answers here little bit later in the program we'll talk about poverty. And to bring in the food Banco buffalo and Western Europe as well 803 on 930s the number now. Talk to me about the broader challenges maybe not operational challenges but the broader challenges that charities face. People don't have as much money now is perhaps that wants to it. Yeah that certainly a challenge and I think that them. There's challenge and opportunity here -- I think that. Investors people who are donors are becoming more savvy and sophisticated. And it sort of speaks to your demonstrating your value proposition through. You know the science of knowing what you've done in your program and presenting that to investors. I think that donors now more than ever are more likely to ask the questions that you're asking me. How is this program effective. They're aware that players. You know a group of charities to choose from and so I think that it's more competitive for the same set of dollars are slightly diminishing totaled seven dollars and our community as. People begin to may be cut back or be be a little more prioritize what they're giving. How have the agencies responded to government cutbacks as it is a matter of most of them relying on donors now less on government it's government still playing a role in most of them. -- -- In order to answer I know we've got to generalize because that probably -- out there. But give me that the lay of the land in terms of the donors stepping up and government may be stepping back. Yes and I think that. Government austerity has created a real challenge for agencies and our community I've seen that firsthand. And -- your correct there been a range of responses to about austerity them I've seen some programs go totally dark. And just -- two leagues because they were leaning so heavily on government grants that aren't there that's correct I mean. United way for example we you know invest. We have discretionary dollars where we make four point five million dollars worth of investment on an annual basis it's a drop in the bucket compared to what. Government invests in health and human services and community. Them. Philosophical question here if if I'm running a store that sells which it's no one wants to buy widgets maestro willful. If time studio arena theatre for example putting on plays that no one wants to see my doors will close. Is it a bad thing that these particular organizations he should have shut down have shut down because they don't have government funding and donors -- have stepped up. So that's. A complex question. I think we've got time we'll take a very competitive at and a general sense yet I think -- them. Charity. Is often times. Filling a market that can be monetized. -- so you would argue that served for someone to say. That it has to be in in demand service. Isn't isn't the best way to measure. And I think it it depends and we need to it's a community make value judgments. About Adam. Investments that will make to help people. Where you can't measure a return. So. You know if studio arena puts on a hit play. -- colossal ticket priced right right and maybe not so much if they put out a clunker yet. You know. There are people who really require assistance. We're who we're not going to have the means to. Monetize -- assistance that they require and you know I think that Mike will be able to speak to that directly we'll get to. That and a bit after the break we'll bring in Mike -- -- from the food bank we'll talk about some of the needs there. And again how these two agency sort of dovetail. 8030930. I promise we'll go to the calls will get that right after this it's hard line on news radio 930 WB yen. It's hard line on his radio 930 WVU and this is the time of year when chances are you're gonna get something in the mail from the charity. Of course the kettles are out there with the bell ringers you've seen many of food drive and Thanksgiving Turkey donation around the region. To the food bank working -- we're talking about charities. How much accountability you they have. Anything about their internal structure of right now we're hoping that if you have a question they'll help you give. We've got guys here that can probably answer that Bob Morgan -- series chief operating officer the united way of Western New York. And let's bring in Mike Bellotti is well he's with the food bank of west New York before the break we talked a little bit about some of the planning things you do. And I imagine the united way as part of that planning. Basically sits around and and tries to figure out how much or how you doing we try to figure out what the community needs. Poverty is always the big headline is that the need. Are there others talked to me about some of the things that you see from here. Your perch looking down what what sort of shape -- the community and. Yes so am. We had mentioned earlier that -- united way tries to identify areas of great need. As well that are receiving attention from others or reasons to make our investments and try to leverage community outcomes. I'm in 2012 -- the undertook the creation of a comprehensive needs assessment okay where we went under the into the community and measured several indicators to look. For how the community was doing in them in different areas when you find where where do we have needs poverty is certainly one that's always discussed up. Discussed rather but what's what's underneath that give me some of the others. Yes so poverty has been persistent in my whole time being employed united way in our community it is a real challenge for us. It obviously that presented itself and our needs assessment. There were specific. The trends that we were finding. If it were may be unique to the time period. That made us. Consider some different types of investments that we would make in the community for example. We're seeing a large influx -- refugee resettlement in our community it's -- more recent trend. And and so when we measure that we ask ourselves. You know how can we leverage our investments are. Community coalitions in order to respond to that relatively new. Community need we've seen. Recent bettering. Integration into our community again. I am at a higher rate you know people who have been combat deployed. And the challenges that people face I think when they've been deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan or maybe a little bit different than what we've seen. In prior veterans returning to our community how so that some degree I think the answers may be it's becoming more. So it is I think a different experience than what we have traditionally seen I think that the am. You know. What modern warfare looks like it's probably quite a bit different than it did in the past so they're just different challenges for people that reintegrating into civilian life. And we've looked at you know what assets. Exist in our community to help. Would bet for example and in addition in 2012 we were seeing. Many. First time unemployed. Folks who you know -- may be. Feeling financial hardship for the first time and just weren't sure how to navigate the system of supports that exist in our community okay. So you know that's a challenge as well that was maybe unique to the timing of that needs assessment. How do you figure out that these needs are out there because if you ask your member agencies that are working each of those areas. Yes they're the guys that are on the ground the guys and gals doing the work. But at the same time I can picture that kind of skewing it. If I have an agency that's working on something really obscure but they're working on it. They're gonna volunteer that that's a neat that that's something being unmet and the community. Do you just survey your member agencies how do you figure out what's needed out there without getting the kind of bias is they'll come from the organization's. That are already there already doing it. Yes that's a really good observation. That is one data point that we use and certainly. Everyone's world view is going to color the way that they present the challenges in the community yet in Mike's case he's seeing them. -- food challenges and our community that is correct right -- carpenter every every every solution demands a hammer. That is. Typically corrects that we use multiple points. Data collection. Some are just freely available data that is available from sources like the census or government agencies. To see how things are trending in our community could be poverty indicators income indicators. Indicators. Around homelessness or health care. In addition we will do. A series of direct and user consumer focus groups to gather information so we're doing that the agency level we're doing that the government level. We're doing it through freely available. Information. And data as well as through focus groups -- individuals. All right now let's talk poverty when you see there. And Mike will certainly bring you into the discussion as well Mike the -- is here from the food bank west New York. Hunger is an issue poverty is an issue to what degree and compare to previous years. Well we're currently. Seeing and a lot of it has to do with that over the first. Cut in food still work a family of four is now realizing. 36 dollars less per month. We're realizing -- 15%. Increase in need from our memory agencies. And the food bank of Western New York. Services approximately 340. Member agencies such as food pantries soup kitchens shelters and group homes in scatter rug -- to talk what Erie and Niagara counties. And compare that rate of growth with prior years. As it slackening or each year do we see more morning. Yeah unfortunately -- cheer we have seen an increase in the years and I've been -- the food bank work currently each month. Home these agencies. Are now providing food to 96179. Individuals. That account for 34030. Households in the four -- and that includes a staggering number. Of -- just over 38000. Children. Let's get a little philosophical I don't even know if this is answerable but it certainly worthy of kicking around Bobby can join in as well why is their poverty. Locally the kind of hunger the kind of issues that you addressed. Is it because people haven't stepped up visit because of the overall economy is that government part of the equation there or or. Something else. Well I think it comes back to the number one issue and a reelection jobs. People and families are realizing lesson come. Prices of everything there is going higher. And they're just not able to make ends meet and that's -- they come to our agencies for assistance our largest growth areas. Have have been veterans and the working poor. That kind of follows what Bob was saying about venture and a veteran he reintegration. And the first time unemployed. And also the other there's growth there is seniors that are living longer really okay. How do you define someone in need do they self identify and knock on the -- and say. Hey Mike -- to Turkey for Thanksgiving or what you have a benchmark someway of of measuring. I don't see any blood test that how do you know -- really needy. Absolutely they called the food bank 852 thirds you know five. We go by their zip code and we have a number of agencies within their zip code. Anyone can go to one of the many soup kitchens that are around. For free hot meal. But to get food subsidy. You have to prove. With your W twos and your financial situation. And the number of children your family. And then there's the -- grid without the -- -- from what food do you receive for the month and world and it's a subsidy it. It helps extended its not all the food that they have. I think I read something recently that I thought was kind of interest thing. This time of year obviously you do have people knocking on the door saying hey Mike give me a Turkey yes and if there's a prior relationship with the food bank in that particular client. You you'll do my Turkey if not maybe ham sandwich. Well. People that come to us to -- or agencies looking for Turkey's. You know and and you saw with the that the generosity of what's in New York over the past you know ten days before Thanksgiving. -- we're able to distribute over 4000. Turkey's tour member agencies that then went directly to the clients and needed it that otherwise would not of had a Turkey dinner. -- so it's. It's something where you see the need growing it's something where you do have a means test to a degree. And. It's it's morphing and changing absolutely and -- so we have an agency services Def. At the food bank were under national organization feeding America works or 200 food banks nationally. And each of our member agencies have a set of rules and regulations. We treat the clients. As we'd like to be treated so we want to make sure that the agencies are up to power in their checked. I'm on a regular basis. Bob let's bring you back in here what can be done to address. That that the growing need other than just having people give I mean certainly. It's a part of it that Mike is here in the appeals are out each year but underneath that is there a broader problem. Is there something that that can be done to maybe change. The level of poverty in Western Europe and I know that's another big question with only five minutes left here but what what should we be doing that we are not doing other than. Giving. Yes so. It is a systemic multi variable equation it is tremendously challenge right there has been war on poverty that Adam you know we've not prevailed live. For decades. In it is but some of that and I I don't wanna get too political but some of that I think is because. The government over the longest period of time has probably just been throwing money at things down. Yet so I think if we look at -- systems level. Systemically as a society that includes government and all of the various pieces that are within it. You know if I could make one system change yeah it would be to measure. Effective programs and take them to scale which is not how we've done now. You know poverty requires different layers of interventions. You need a safety net for people to land into. When they've got no other recourse but bad things like the food bank yes and okay critically important right so. You know you fall on hard times you've got no place else to go society should have a safety net catches people aren't. And then we need programming. That can take people on a continuum to self sufficiency. And what I would say is are you talking. Re education. It could be education job training financial literacy is part of it I would imagine. Absolutely financial literacy and you know as Mike said you need jobs at the back end of that pipeline that people can come into so you need to -- You know employment opportunities we have people who are trained for the type of employment opportunities that we I think that recently there's been a lot of really good news and our community. And I think it's incumbent upon us in in terms of new development new employers coming to the region I think it's incumbent upon us to try to match folks. Who have challenges with the sorts of opportunities that are coming to a community. -- make those opportunities avail available to those. During the recent debate. And the mayor or as the mayor's race in the city of buffalo there was a lot of criticism thrown at incumbent mayor Byron brown. Because at one point he said they need to be a plan for poverty. And the plan didn't necessarily materialize and a real concrete way. Do you agree do we need to address this systemically. Is there perhaps a failure of government to do that war can we argue the other side and maybe it's not -- government's role what you say. I think. That it is a challenge that belongs to all of us. I'm so there's a role for government there's a role for nonprofits there's a group -- role for individuals. People should be giving and volunteering in their community trying to make a difference. There's a role for them corporate citizenship for the corporations before profit corporations and our community. Again it is a complex multi variable challenge. That dad does require people to do you. What they can within the sphere of influence. If I'm him take a risk you're gonna try to go to call with two minutes left if we can't get the issue of fleshed out can you still bit after the news -- can do a couple of minutes OK good. -- -- in Dan and East Aurora high you're on the -- Yeah I don't have a great. The I'm just record come and -- -- radio stations and TV stations. Raising thousands and thousands of Turkey's nonperishable foods. It's great and on the double off Sloan knows what a picture nominees fairway. Well they got big screen beauties. They're taxing on Smartphones. Narration and acres there's about six -- and -- There -- about a father -- one and you just tell these people. Get off your rear end and get -- All right. As though we don't have time for the answer stay with us I'm gonna poppy on hold stay there if you can if not will rephrase the question on the other side of the break. Mike the line is here from the food bank of -- New York Bob Morgan is here for the united way way to get to that the idea that he had needy people. -- they have things in their lives will touch on that after the break its hardline on news radio 930 WB and it's time to talk politics it's hard line on news radio nine. Here's W. -- high -- that news radio 930 WB and this is Dave -- We're talking for the next little bit here about charity is Mike but Lonny is here from the food bank of course New York this is the time of year. When people certainly are out and about asking for more donations. And before the break Bob and Bob Morgan by the way from the united way did have to -- he's no longer with us but before the break some imposed a question to both Mike and Bob. The idea that. Every year there are these charity appeals and you can look at for example. The news neediest fund I'm not picking on them but -- example that the caller -- -- You open up the paper you see a picture there someone saying hey I've got in need. Give me a Turkey give me a pair of slippers give me toys for my kids. But at the same time in that photo in the background is perhaps a flat screen TV. A lot of families don't have flat screen TV is that that issue and that perception is certainly out there. As a charity as a group that's working with the needing. Can you educate the needy on how they need to be spending their money. Is this kind of thing and a caller like the guy we had before the break a problem for agencies like yours -- Well you know. We hear that we hear that often. Thumb but people see what the food bank does Hillary agencies to that. Every bit -- qualified. And there's a need there and -- our mission is to provide the end to that need and that is provide food to hungry. I am not picking and you better I'd -- flesh this issue out if I come to you with a W two that says I'm not making any money. And yet I'm not spending their money really well how much of that can you address probably not a lot. No not a lot and you know it's a society issue. You know that this fellow was talking about and you know as I said before are -- or our mission at the food bank. Is to provide food to the agency's of them provide them. To the clients that we served. All right let's I get back into the phone calls 8030930. Coming up later in the program by the way Anthony's cell -- there will be here from CBS news. He is their director of elections will get into more hard core politics stock. In just a little bit like we usually do but let's take another call from Mike Molly in Niagara Falls Europe thanks for calling. Are you there and are you on the there. Molly going once. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I thought Barry. I don't know what I'd then like at that angle as I was entitled. I couldn't believe my eyes when I I was in the sort of kind of girl. And he had an -- tired. And that I can't be buyers like -- why can't get tired and then she peaked yet as cigarette. Has there been some. Somebody -- to change the rules you know a I know the tires you know people who are really hurting out there. What should you know working people out. That money come out of you know I can't you can't go into historic site where is Barry. You know working for. Yes it's kind of famous Q that we just raise with the flat screen TV. Mike. Philosophically address that maybe not so much with you food bank head on but in the general sense tell me what to do about that or what do you think about that well. You know I think as we pointed out earlier it's an issue and in society. You know what people are people and you know they're gonna purchase. You know what they need and com in a lot of cases there's you know voices of you know buying cigarettes and things of that nature. You know but for the most part there's people in need and those people and neither are the ones that we take care of. And if you decided not to address those needs because of the other issues that this caller is raising. Talk to me about what what happened well I think that then there'd be many more people that are in a much greater needs and the issue would just be you know tenfold the ball or deal with that I wish. I -- Bob Montgomery could testicle the longer he actually had a hockey game to get to. He talked a bit about how. Poverty is multi disciplinary. How -- government has a role how sure food banks have a role united way has a role but he also said -- in the mix there there has to be things like. Financial literacy teaching people. Your job is to just delivered turkeys not teach people but you acknowledge at least that there is the need to teach people. Exactly but we also teach people how to use of for the we've prepared that we. -- provide for them we have cooking classes at the at the food bank we send information out. To our agencies that if we get in a certain amount of a pro -- how do you prepare that. How do you make the meals last longer we've got a nutritionist on staff at the food bank that puts this information. Together sort of continual. Education process with the clients -- we serve. If you're the handshake or someone initially meets agencies like this do you then pass them off to others. That could add the other layers things like financial literacy for example up. So lonely and and we -- working coalition with them and were one of the united way agencies. So there's always communication. With these agencies and -- how we can do that education. Are we don't have a little bit of time left and you also have to get off to a hockey related event. -- let's bring in another call here don't wanna spend too much time bashing welfare per say but it's out there it's something that people wanna talk about John -- you're one of them high. Hi yeah arm speed these tactics have been Republican tactic since Ronald Reagan of course in any system so people are going to be used this system but. Remember Ronald Reagan's damaged beyond box. By T bone steak. And it goes -- until this stay with. Republicans in mirror you know but these -- referring to him as. President Obama as the food stamp president. And that and then of course is -- yet here they went. It's a -- thing but it it's pretty blatantly racist actually to. I don't know if you can play the racism card unless you're willing then to say. That all the needy folks are African Americans can you. -- you can't you can't say that but calling the first black president of the United States -- -- -- I tell you referring to the -- in general I got you. A hit it's not one person saying it it's the whole fox propaganda broadcast network in its actual numbers of the Republican Party. Sitting members of congress who say it. It's not like some -- white belt personally climb back together. In -- general sense do you -- and this is for both you caller John and Mike. Do you think there's a need for welfare reform or change in some -- somewhere. I personally think it should be expanded because -- because of the pork implore the listeria nor'easter. And -- it would even talk about expanding a program like this ever expanding a program like Social Security to meet people needs. Who don't have jobs with good -- that provided contention like in the past. He didn't like who was the political suicide you concede something like that. All right. Micro money with food bank jump on in here. Well I think that driving these issues. Are going to be looked -- much closer you know down the road they know feeding America's working closely with you know congress -- the senator in Washington. And these types of issues and I think you're gonna probably see changes. -- do you think no way in the current climate I mean this is a congress that did both bi partisan Democrat and Republican. Agreed to cut back on food stamps this year while they're in negotiation though of exactly what they're gonna do in 2004 -- And ultimately that Canada based in effect do you absolutely if there's cuts. More people are gonna come they're gonna have less dollars to get through the month to put food on the table it's going to be -- -- heat or to wait but. There are -- I hate this does sound like some of the people call -- criticizing. There are those that would argue that it might not be the government's role that it is perhaps your role with the food bank. So. Serving people making sure the needs are -- is ultimately the goal on either side it's a question of who they necessarily want to do it. Correct and that's why. The need is so great from the food bank to why we have. Food drives throughout the year and -- -- in so many different places closing comments Thanksgiving is gone you need is gone right no need to bring in Erica and I. Our -- unfortunately. Well two points here number one I'd like to personally thank where you're better come. Think the officials here but also tearing -- grew up of the savers for providing our tickets we are. And collected over 17100 turkeys for the food banks -- city mission last week. But hunger is an issue 365. Days of the year. Don't just think of us -- Roma holidays think of us in February march and April all right my thanks for coming in Michelle if.