Apr 21, 2013|
with Michael Liwicki, former FBI Supervisory Agent & Medaille's Steven MacMartin, ex-DHS agent, Buffalo
Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
It's time to talk politics it's hard line on news radio nine. NB. And I say to each and every week what do we could just talk politics this week I think we're gonna just say what a week it was starting out of course on Monday. With the Boston Marathon bombings. And then later that manhunt that wound up on Friday night. With one suspect at the other one in custody right now. President Obama addressed that a little bit after the -- there's so many unanswered questions. Among. White young man who grow up and studied here. As part of our communities. Our country. Or such files. And he went on in his comments to say overtime both the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security will obviously looking into both of those things trying to figure out what's going on. We figured -- help a little -- just a little bit for the sake of discussion we have someone from the FBI here joined in just a little bit by. Michael Lewinsky a former supervisory agent of the FBI in the buffalo office we also have Steve McMartin here he's the director of my -- Homeland Security program -- far. Homeland Security agent with the customs is for awhile before that agency was established to. 8030930s. Or number Steve let's us start with you first off thanks for being here like magic came on and Rory thanks for. Are you surprised that this took so long not just the investigation but for us to reach a point after 9/11. For a bombing like this occurred. Well I was surprised that was my first. First reaction to it incident. First filters. Yeah it could be happening and then and then yet it took so long. You can talk a little bit and I don't wanna jump too far back in history -- talk a little bit about some of them the parallels the things that you saw now that major thing maybe of nine elevenths. Did you I guess what I'm really asking is did you from the beginning think this was something domestic IK Tim McVeigh or did you think this was something foreign Osama bin Laden. Well let it that's it that's a good parallel to draw when 9/11 happened I remember distinctly driving into work. And the announcement of the first tower being hit. And my first reaction was terrorism -- whereas in this case and is in many cases that have come along since 9/11. Remember when the power failure occurred in about 2004. -- our whole entire northeast went down. Everybody immediately thought terrorism right and it turned out not to be. In this case clearly you know first reaction was it was terrorist right. Right and the other interesting thing than any mention before we we started chatting here on there. You were not necessarily surprised with the speed. Of that not the speed of the capture because he was on the run here for a little bit and obviously Friday it was a manhunt. But you were not surprised with the speed of how quickly he was identified how quickly they started closing in on him explain some of the intricacies of that. Well. I think. That the public sees you know what what the media present. Which is their only source. But as as first responders were responding -- people overcoming from other federal agencies into the Boston areas as the the response at the scene was picking up I'm sure behind the scenes. There was Intel work being done and that in toe work led to their quickness from the moment the bomb went off he felt there was Intel. Looking at someone opened up of violence that who win this area I -- have -- absolutely Intel folks or even the investigators immediately saw what was happening. And opened up the files of the people that were already. I'm up on the board shall speak and we're looking at them as possible so so. When news broke yesterday afternoon that a foreign government probably obviously Russia had warned us about this guy. When news broke yesterday that the older brother was interviewed. By the FBI last year they had something on him already you don't necessarily look at that that is a missed opportunity wide -- they talked to my and they know on. Your take would be. They had his name. Absolutely yes all right let's bring in Michael -- he is a former supervisory agent for the FBI Michael thanks for joining us this morning. What are your thoughts let's pick up right where we were with Steve for a moment the idea that. Russert told us who this guy was a while ago that we should watch this guy. Do you think that played a role but his name was perhaps probably analyst. I I have no doubt that name was not I was they would what you have to remember is that. Yet BI and other federal agencies get these types of warnings. Patch early or unique here was that it came from where it came from we don't normally get these kind of warning from Russia for example. But we do get them from other countries and they don't come individually people at this site via. That this was one individual whose name was brought to our attention and only his name was brought to our attention on the coolest command. They're usually in groups of 3050s sometimes even as high as 200. And so in the case of talents and I have do you think he was hey look at him specifically or. Here's a ground here's a group of radicalized. Russians that might be in the United States keep and I am. I believe that's exactly how how his name came to. Came to the forefront here in the United States to the FBI yes. Do you think your prior agency deserves any criticism here. Well I think you know what we're open to criticism I don't know exactly what happened we will know. Very shortly having -- this is something that the that the news media and everybody's very interest and as a former. Retired supervisors actually and I'm very interest in knowing what happened. Did it fall by the wayside if we missed something. That's yet to be determined. -- -- Peel back the curtain -- what do you think based on your experience is going on now. Obviously they got him that they got the younger brother to the hospital obviously at some point they they started talked to him probably Moran -- them. But tell me about the other stuff that's going on doors are still being knocked -- now. Absolutely. In this kind of a case. It's it's a massive undertaking and had the opportunity. To speak -- an agent botnet. At work where when I was in new York and yours. And and invest it in the World Trade Center I mean they're. And and others both in 1990 tree and the 2001 battling him in York. And that's something very uninteresting. She was actually put in charge of looking at photographs. In front -- that world were three million photographs. Mob that set which he was doing now in addition to the video. -- tapes that are being reviewed the photographs that are being reviewed and that will be more photographs published. It's unclear this they need to digital photography. Has produced a apart throughout -- -- photographs. And and -- and that attitude could use of this surveillance technique. But in addition -- this. -- I'm sure there are. Dozens and dozens. The eight C eight Homeland Security. Agents knocking on doors talking to people getting information. Information like she was able share with me in terms of the neighbors that live. I am I what I've not heard. And it shows. Is what she told him that is. It it became pretty obvious to neighbors they see -- undergone some kind of transformation. Eating used to work radical nation but I'm sure that's when he was hitting it he says that the suspect who's now deceased. Head growing a beard and you looked very -- And that when the photographs were actually published he didn't recognize him. Because he -- -- was clean shaven. So information like data coming out yeah. I see another parallel as well I heard that the things you mentioned about 93 and 2001 no World Trade Center. In some ways. To me this looks a little bit perhaps like the Washington sniper only that you had an older male and a younger one who perhaps was under his control. Is there a Svengali kind of thing going on here or. Do you think both these guys are radicalized won't affect -- second Mike let's bring in Steve what what are your thoughts there. It once was blue elder brother camera when a ringleader. And the the suspect that triggered the manhunt Joseph Carr. An -- -- I think we're into the realm of culture here program. But I do believe from what we've seen. -- was -- older Brothers into it radicalized. And certainly had what's you controlling effect. And as long as we're speculating and I have to underline that because no one really knows but as long as we understand that's what we're doing I think it's okay that we can do it. Did that then change the way Friday played out. If if I am under the control of -- under the leadership of this older brother and he's gone now. I've got to believe that changes my activities but I think so it I think what apple which. Young -- the younger. Less. Pre planned. Rather in almost a panic situation he lost his -- didn't want to do sure. It is 309 there's a number that's Steve -- the director of the Homeland Security program and I college. Michael -- former FBI supervisory agent what you think there it was. Was he adrift at some point do you think. It -- about the the younger the younger brother joke. Of the two. The -- under. -- obviously was much more. Americanized. And refer to as a typical Cambridge boy. Was very much all the older. The older. Suspects here. Obviously became radicalized. During his side trip back to the two in the Moscow eerie -- in Alaska. And went up the carpet treatment where I'm sure. See it and -- -- the terrorist training camp of sorts that and to put together the arms. David there's a lot of some queries you you mentioned Washington sniper. But I trucks and what are these two the 2000 entry -- -- six case here with the with the Yemeni. Americans. The 2010 case. I would repair to the car bombing in Times -- it was with I should back. The 2009 Fort Hood case with a plan. -- -- go back as far as as I mentioned earlier. 1993. With range used -- and the World Trade Center. All of these people were radicalized somewhere you know while they are trained they came back to the United States many of whom. -- US citizens. I was at some became US citizens for example. Is that. By -- in in 2000 and became a US citizen 2000 and and it's -- older brother. Just two years prior between. What does that mean more broadly if these guys can go overseas and get this kind of training. Clearly there is an active organization that is training them the threat is still out there now. The threat is out there it's been out there. I am looking. -- -- I have in my hand the terrorist training manual. Their training -- Manuel. Was gotten from believe it was me in Manchester England. During a raid by by the brits and -- our cell. It's manual details. Indian spirit that the hell out of planetary. -- how to train. How to avoid surveillance what to do when your -- how to handle interrogation. There's three there's really a table of contents search to pages long. The talks. Exactly how to do their. And all these cases that I -- to include. We just haven't -- some pretty much follows the errors and. Steve you're -- you handle that command here but no I I agree but I just want to make the point that. Your -- kind of saying you know is in danger -- there's an organization strange folks. There's multiple wars without him next question who is that they acquire the trainers here is that splinter groups and fragments everywhere now that -- we have a question and one of the earlier classes in the Homeland Security courses and that is do you think that group predicted 9/11. Of course when you Monday Morning Quarterback in the back right through all of a sudden al-Qaeda comes -- was shining beacon. Well now people are gonna look and aggressive well you know we should -- seen as shifting rubble terrorist who earlier. And at that point is there's lots of groups that girl -- the original shining beacon in the one thing happens. And then that light is turned out for that duration but that doesn't mean mean that that group is in any way more prominent than the ones were probably not aware of exactly okay. 8030930s or number got to take a quick break we'll be back after this Steve McMillan is here. He from the Homeland Security Department at the government acknowledged. And -- before that he was with the Homeland Security Department. Former customs agent for about 31 years also with us former supervisory agent of the FBI Michael Wiki. Let's get ready to take your calls of you like to join us on the way if you saw this thing unfold them and who among us didn't either three or 930. Maybe there were things you noticed along the way that you wondered what was that I saw that this is a theory that works for me. We've got experts here that can tell you whether. Your gut is right in that regard. And of course we'll have questions about the future and where this all leads after this its hardline on news radio 9:30 AM and 107 point seven FM. WB yen. -- WB. It's hard line on news radio 9:30 AM 107 point seven FM WB and good morning this is they've developed. Coming up at 11 o'clock we're gonna move off of Bob Boston we're gonna touch and a little bit but so we'll also look at. Washington -- the budget and congressman Chris Collins will be here in about half an hour in the meantime though ready to take some of your calls Michael Lewinsky is here. A former supervisory agent for the FBI we also have been studio. And I apologize for -- are -- your name earlier Steve -- Martin is here. He's with the Homeland Security studies department and the -- college he's a former customs DHS agent himself you were telling -- something variant -- during the break. That shortly after 9/11. You would spend lots of time. In Niagara Falls surveilling people taking pictures and I'm guessing that you write in a city like Niagara Falls there are a lot of people taking a lot of pictures yet. But that's speaks to the idea. That if I am doing something suspicious taking a picture of Niagara Falls immediately after nine elevenths. That is going to trigger some sort of awareness that the public had a heightened sense. If someone left a backpack. On the brink of Niagara Falls or in a park -- at -- buffalo marathon shortly after nine elevenths. Chances are the public would appoint in -- hey look at that that's suspicious long what the heck are you doing long before long. Isn't even sure right. Here we -- early years later and the point is obviously -- other point is that it's tough to maintain state of awareness whether it's conscious state of awareness whether it's government and -- words whether it's people. But our our state of awareness has gone down. And I think that people remember only security's New York State Police FBI insane since nine elevenths if you see something -- that's something. And it's hard to to maintain that kind of public vigilance in overtime it is and it's in our question we discuss select classes whether or not it's a public responsibility. As students considerate. Their initial reaction is no but then is that discussion develops and we we bring in. A lot of other things to think about students gradually. -- to believe that is the responsibility of a person businesses I imagine you agree with a lot of Mike right. Absolutely Steve these are obsolete correct. You know we knew we -- we -- classes to various entities. It's paper organization for example you know arena as -- stadium. And what thing. That we governor exactly what with Steve pointed out you can see something say something it can be it's going to be angered the the private citizens. They're -- see something. And in many cases long for law enforcement does and they need to react to. 8030930s. Number I hate to do this to the folks that are on hold. But if we went to call right now chances are. We wouldn't have a lot of time to really get into some sort of -- good discussion before you have take a break for news so -- on hold please stay right there. We will get you we have two experts here. Steve McMartin is here from and I Collins Michael Wiki is your former supervisory agent of the FBI. We're kicking around all the things that happened this week 8030930. If you'd like to join us we'd love to have you aboard. Guys real briefly before the break tell me where you think happens next. Specifically. Involving prosecution and -- that's not -- I know you both more law enforcement guys. But a brief the minute or thirty seconds from each of you. On what happens now. Well I think this will be eulogies call. To make that decision whether it's tree intimacy. No Miranda and probably some sort of trial at Guantanamo -- somewhere. Or standard court procedure here in the states which is your guy. -- -- -- Again I don't know all. I think you could go either way I I think objectively and fairly you've got to treat this this younger boy in a rubber -- trouble you'll report spread right temelin is dead retro cars one I've got I think you treat this -- as criminals. What do you say Michael. I yeah I agree with Steve although you know yet keep in mind reported that it. And and then and then it's time trial which was a military trial. The satellite sentence and and are seeking the death penalty that -- bridge. But I have to agree it is critical federal. And it's it's going to be a federal trial try to federal court yes. All right very good. We'll -- you both on holder and if you're on the on the line waiting call and now would be a great time I'll get right to the calls right after the news. It's hard line on news radio 9:30 AM and one of seven point seven FM WB -- it's hard -- on news radio 9:30 AM one of seven point seven FM WB yen -- and if you're out about. Maybe get the radio on and and for some reason in your car it's just in an area where you're not getting a great you can also flip over to one of 2.5 HD channel. It's here it is a lot of fun where their -- 8030930s. The number we have to US experts here we're talking about the investigation and everything that springs out of the Boston Marathon bombings. Michael -- Wiki is Europe former supervisory agent from the FBI he's but in the buffalo area now where worked recently. For several security and investigation firms. We also have. Steve McMartin here he runs the homeland security studies department -- -- college he used to be with the Homeland Security Department. Working with customs investigations there as well. 8030930s number as promised let's not wait much longer let's go right to the calls Joseph in buffalo picked it off for us thanks for Chiming in. -- -- -- -- That's some of the -- -- so the fact that how -- the doc -- have a -- an idea that this is an inside job carried out by our government. Take away their rights. Wanted to that was the navy seal the planet about what do you think the radio station that -- this sought treatment garbage to be broadcast. I I I think there's a First Amendment and I don't know if you can blame the radio station but we can certainly discuss the theories Steve what do you think. Well first on what you First Amendment but I think there's ridiculous OK Michael anything to a false like hearing your mind. I know I agree with look with -- -- it would -- this. That hurt I've heard some of these. We do that -- on the First Amendment right in this country people are created they would see what was wanna say. I agree it is preposterous and I don't I don't abide by any of those series and I think the ridiculous. And sir if I was a guest in your home I can't think of how to put this without being blunt. I don't know -- -- start keying on your carpet this is our radio station calling up and trying to criticize our station on our station. That's -- -- I appreciate the exchange I think it's a good idea that you -- there to talk about these things and we certainly gave your ideas some some. Some -- here but come on keepers. 8030930s. Number do you think these guys moved that -- -- Brothers were driven and funded by an overseas group Michael. Or do you think that they were may be trained -- lone wolf renegades. Well that that's the million dollar question David. It. If I was without conducting this investigation. I would -- was series of questions that I would want to ask. The suspect while she became. Able period to answer whether it be verbally or is true it giving him a keyboard tactic to communicate which right now I think probably the best way to do it. So that we don't waste anymore time or one and one of the questions I would definitely ask him is. Was. What -- effort on their -- home and where. All right same question Steve McMahon. On wall -- train and guided. Who Monica Seles probably the wrong to guess who brought in -- as cuts in agreement there Qaeda. I don't look at their counter as they I agree with him investigations can be done we've said in -- impossible to tell now. I wouldn't be surprised to see it go either way okay so there there are indications in your mind that say it's one. There are indications your mind that say it's the other yes on 8030930s. Number L in -- thanks for Chiming in from so far away it's your turn now. Chartered of the course I've got the neighbors. Try to be vigilant and there's -- against the law. Ordered government to share information about individuals on the list. So repair or error in an article that was against the law or an urgent need to. I'm an. Bring it from home for me with an example of Boston are not sure exactly what you're asking. -- and who their individual article lists there and they're great investigate and then. It is against our sanctity of the other parts of the neighbors and in that individual on the list of Passaic it's the situation are you. OK but I -- Ya got towed to what degree do surveillance occur off off these though watch lists Steve. Well. I think just to address the question there are privacy regulations and policies in place. And I think what callers asking is it is. If you're notified that there's this type of information at a particular person for the government -- neighbors and and element no. What a Michael chime on in forest helped. -- would be well what the caller her current views. Is something -- notification it was such -- -- in your neighborhood. Our and they're like outside diamond -- -- convict I would so but I. Some think back to back -- and -- never becomes our space and privacy. Absolutely -- there are guidelines there investigative guidelines that we would not release that information because of national security interest. Got it -- great call how than Michael do you go and and find out about eight ambulance are may have. Without necessarily talking to neighbors because once you start talking to neighbors sure there's -- there's a privacy exposure there. -- neighbors I mean right now the people are knocking on doors and asking and asking questions to to glean what -- information and perhaps we queen however. In the India on in the format of -- of an investigation. That it rarely done. To the Internet. Cell phone records are used. Other records are articulate or are -- take a look at very very seriously and analyzed. Oh in the field divisions and back to Washington so. Those things don't normally happen in the in in the process of an investigation. Much more serious analysis is done. And Steve I think it was your might have been Michaels had earlier. That when something happens like this where Russia has tipped us off. That there's a person to watch it's not just watched person I it's a list of 152030. Names. Do you just law enforcement generally then starts surveilling all thirty of the list as -- why don't picture that being practical now. Well -- yet to take and Mike Mike did mention this earlier he's he's said I'm sorry aggregate that we get the -- -- Homeland Security. You have to remember it's thirty innings analysts and very different cities. It's very different offices taking. And as you do investigation. Almost exactly as Mike described. Certain factors are gonna isn't hate it's the subject away from your concern which will be here and see what happened in this case. But if you're concerned it'll stays there and ramps up there are things you can do -- surveillance. And you continue to watch and salute the resources expended. Parties agrees with and talk to me a little bit without letting too many secrets on the bag for obviously you're you're too Smart to do that and your Mac and it jeopardize those. Used to work with. Describe surveillance is it's just a guy in a car with a pair of binoculars like we see in the movies -- or is there something more that could be going on in all sorts of cases here that we're not aware of where this is an -- they tell students in classes but we -- both practical aspects of the job. That they think you know -- -- CSI -- -- exactly I mean that's -- Honestly folks get -- all from TV and I'm guessing that's not my bag completely accurate picture saying this thing law enforcement is 85% word 5% -- -- -- -- Michael how -- helped me out there to -- -- described modern surveillance of Buchanan and maybe the evolution and even past couple years are things being done now differently. Then back in the days of of Sam Spade and again in a car with a pair of binoculars. Well to to a degree. There's there's nothing that never replace a guy an entire with the Arab and actuators. That's that's watching someone however. The more the more sophisticated technology becomes the more sophisticated our surveillance techniques become. And -- yet are still people in the cars that ran a special operations unit here the FBI. I can tell you yes there -- guys in Paris however there's also much more sophisticated techniques for example I was in Boston Thursday prior to students in America. And they happen to be walking right out oils and street right where the the finish line was -- one activation I made. Is that I have never seen as many surveillance cameras -- city all of but privately held I went to a cigar store for example in this dark story itself although I'm embarrassed or -- street at two surveillance cameras. Back in addition to this real cameras that are being used by lord Taylor by the credentials Senator -- side by all the hotels in the area. There hasn't been forty to fifty camera so when I first heard of what happened. Like you said earlier in the in the program. I I knew that. Within days they would have something films of this city major. Digital photography. And and technology has increased our capability to do discreet surveillance. When those pictures came out on I believe Thursday afternoon. Both you guys saw them we were able immediately to think gee that's from a private Cameron gee that's from a public camera. What were your thoughts when you for some sort of in with used to. It's it's hard to tell but I think we knew right away that the initial the best pictures were from the Lord & Taylor yeah camera okay. -- discussion both this actually officer's bullets are elections at the college on Thursday night we have a lecture. Rights and procedural rights under Homeland Security -- and one of things we're gonna talk about -- these cameras and and that the absolute. Preponderance of cameras you CO -- you have to understand you're probably at least in some higher public -- always on camera. And the legal issue with the core of it is if you're on a street corner there is no expectation of privacy but what -- what about say the cigar store. No there's no reasonable expectation of privacy for the video. It's only for audio. -- really. OK so if I'm on a corner. I I got to believe that I'm being seen and being watched regardless yeah. And as a legal principle that stands I mean as long as I'm a public place it's public right okay Michael come on in here. Yeah you're here in Europe or Europe public place you have -- it was patient privacy exactly right he audio the only thing. That that we're prohibited from using but in addition -- to the attacker could take a look at how social media was used -- In this particular case the thermal imaging that it would be became aware of that you only saw on shows like criminal minds and -- Now it's being used by the National Guard. It's being law enforcement so there's there's a lot of techniques that were exposed during this particular investigation that are now real. It 030930s number off to the phones again Stan and Rochester hello. Hello guys we have to get smarter and tougher and how we deal with this job is -- example the Fort Hood massacre that major. Command his commanding officer of the post commander in the second which -- secretary of the army this guy gets promoted to a major. Any extent and you know he had not -- what kind of an investigation that you have I would investigated to the law when -- -- in in the military. Now it's hard to investigate and they investigated if Shaq -- brother. The FBI ten years ago during the Bush Administration FBI and I -- well what -- is always magic and nobody filed through. Which when you must tackle. Well let me say that you know that the collar the colors right. And then it goes back to to what which was which -- it just a few minutes ago if you see something. Say something I think that I think that things will change here in the future people are getting what we're sensitive to the fact that they can't keep their -- Shut about things any longer. They're gonna have to bring it to the forefront bring victory authority bring -- law enforcement bring that your boss and then the onus is on them. Think he would warrant -- Going Barack during the 80s80. All bomber terrorist bomber hair Marine Corps barracks in Beirut Lebanon coming -- -- 141 Marines so what did bush put together our regular about it. Nothing he caught Iran. I mean come -- we can't do stuff like this. He has. India and I don't I don't know an initial thing about the Fort Hood case I just wanna say. That what you what you see is is one of these dangers and I -- we talked or earlier on here or not these lone wolf terrorists. There are on their own in the United States. And it's very possible somebody like the Fort -- news shorter past is backgrounds. And continued to pass backgrounds but after that is the period which became radicalized. And decided on his own little attack plan. I've been wondering about that do you think that there are and and this again is the realm of speculation do you think there are sleeper cells or as a matter of things like we just saw a guy who's already here who may be a switch is flipped Irsay moved. My personal opinion is that certainly there could be sleeper cells. Violently awake at night worrying about it the problem is these guys usually knows it -- all of a sudden they flip the switch. And I don't mean button to buy that I don't mean flipping a switch and activating sleeper -- I mean a guy like one of the -- of Brothers who. By all accounts was relatively. Contend with the United States and then suddenly decides he's not exactly Michael same question. You know I think that they know what can happen both ways. In the in the -- that case. Has and was yeah -- it was a US army major -- psychiatrist he was he was while he was well respected but later Aaron. He became radicalized and subway and ended up killing thirteen people and injuring over 35. Is his radicalization occurred late Iran as a member of the military and he's he. Actually dissuaded people from joining the army. Other Muslims telling telling them that Muslims shouldn't be killing other -- All right we -- for a break we'll take a couple calls right on the other side and then no wind things up. Steve McMartin is here from -- college their homeland security studies department also former supervisory FBI agent Michael Wiki. Both more after this it's hard line on news radio 9:30 AM and one of seven point seven FM WB yeah. Who said he FM dial he's just true music you're the voice of buffalo louder and nuclear work news ready at 9:30 AM 107 point seven FM WDN. It's hard line and news radio 9:30 am one of seven point seven FM WB and we're talking obviously about the investigation and the week's events and Boston. Michael what he is here former supervisory agent of the FBI also Stephen MacMillan here. He's the program director of Homeland Security program am and I count a former DA tests agent himself. Let's squeeze in one more call here. Bob in buffalo you've got to the floor. Spoken more independent trust both your guest how much political correctness is under. Homeland security and the FBI expert. Well I guess psyched up now a leading question what -- parity. You know political correctness. Here really needs equated with common sense. And I think there's a lot of common sense it was an investigation like this video. Concept of profiling people think that we saw him in the sixties and seventies maybe -- But that curses. Nearly as much as people would think. And I don't think if you're viable political practice as a negative idea right right idol. I would say it never affected. Negatively in the investigation. And Michael what you do you think there were cases where. You wouldn't have been told presume something because of the quote unquote political correctness issues around it. No I'm an ID II technically street and my twenty something years with the bureau that never happened that would be very disappointed agent if it didn't happen. And in terms and terms of profile and will say there's the arson cases spot for the bad as they're part of a lot. He thought is that racial profiling may not be the way to go here like profiling behavior. Works. And I am a firm believer that. All right now related to that tell me if over those times you've been with the FBI how many years you say 27. Did policy change I don't want it to make it political but I imagine. That the George Bush world view in the Barack Obama worldview and the Bill Clinton world view. We're probably three different errors -- or or when it comes down to the on the street level. Is law enforcement law enforcement law enforcement all the same. You're fully right that that that's exactly the way I older I started as an agent 1983 workers several presidential administration. And and although they have their own ideologies they have their own agendas. On the street level law enforcement the FBI Homeland Security Yates. Oh we are not affected. That this administration. Kind of an interesting side note here the administration will use this case. It was it was -- to -- that that perhaps we don't need to show everybody go to Guantanamo anymore they're civilian courts. Are adequate that's what I think would come out of this administration and the particular case. Steve weigh in on this what to what degree did you see differences in policy making a difference for your job. The waves the ways creative by the different administrations occur at the top. And then they obsolete they -- -- by -- it agent mistreat workers to their job. -- and you know Eagles here. Where is the effect that would talk about some of the things above you that. That chain you know via the effect the the approach to immigration and immigration reform completely different than this in the history -- was the last administration. And you were specifically with customs and immigration plan I see my right okay immigration customs enforcement right. And and you'll see maybe differences in the type cases. Number of cases and cases that are emphasized. Doing the work goes all right. Great stuff guys and just think closing comment from interview what happens next give me a prediction or just us some insight that we haven't had a chance to mention a phone. On the programmer earlier Mike we'll start with you. Well you know look like it's I think that that Boston. And shortest a lot it's it's gonna make this bank although I about how he earned a prosecutor case. How we're -- investigated cases it's opened our eyes certainly. The radicalization. Of young individual young males. Is it being done questions and to be thrown out there's that he is being done. School and colleges and universities. It's still being done -- rational -- -- traveling back six months and -- so radicalized and come back to the United States and then and then and then point their radicalization -- too. You know Brothers uncles and nieces and nephews sooner -- -- Group it is the -- he is continuing grassroots domestic terrorism I think that's I think that's. That's -- it -- -- in the future. Our enemies catch up but we are at a time closing comment ten seconds Steve just that I think you're gonna see you criminal trial in the American justice system in question is whether it was so well all right that's Stephen McMartin and -- -- college earlier Michael -- former FBI supervisory agent.