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Bills Lease Deal: Deputy Erie Co Exec Rich Tobe

Dec 23, 2012|

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It's hard line good morning this is Dave -- in 030930s number. Little bit later this half hour we will be taking your calls we're talking about the Buffalo Bills -- for Ralph Wilson Stadium. The lead negotiator for Erie county was rich -- the deputy county executive he's here. We can start by going through what's in the deal. And we'll pick up certainly -- those economic arguments he he someone obviously he worked on the -- he was up until midnight night after night after night. Pushing this deal forward so he's someone who's gonna have a little bit different opinion -- you heard from Bruce Fisher in the last segment he thinks it's worth that wouldn't talk about that we'll take your calls too. 8030930s. Number rich thanks for coming and. -- it's a pleasure nice to be here what is in this deal the I thought we -- first run through the deal it's complicated and in the flurry of activity on Friday. Some of the laying out what actually occurred. Arm that is least the Atlanta police is ten years right. But after seven it changes what the bill saw was -- glimpse at what the future for people will be. And that glimpse comes when the player's contract that's now in effect lapses and go to a new contract and so they sought a one time window. To see how the new players contract from the TV contract will affect them. So if they wish to leave at the end of the seventh year they can do so we're paying about 28 million dollars. If they don't exercise that option players' contracts okay. TV contracts OK they stay for the full ten years. What they decide say to leave tomorrow right they have made an ironclad pledge to stay after they've pretty in the document they said it publicly. But should something change and they decide to leave we have a non relocation agreement that is binding as all lawyers could make it. And the bill is really in dispute our efforts Mickens is legally binding as possible. The Islamic law the -- and twenties. But in the end we have the right to what's called specific performance but is more commonly known as an injunction which this president or things we can go to court. And that -- we agreed to court will be here in Erie county uses federal state there will be here. We can go to court and say they're breaking the lease there braking and on relocation agreement. We want a court order mandating that they say they stay -- should that fail. The backup through belts and suspenders is 400 million dollar payment the bills we'll have to make to state and county to exercise. There they're leaving it's not an option to leave its contract violation. And they've agreed that that's a rough estimate of the damage is that this community would feel. If they broke the contract and left all right so that's that's right now. Yes 29 million if they decide to lead in years seven right facing new CBA -- what about years 89100. All the non relocation agreement remains in effect and the specific performance or injunction. And the 400 million dollars in damages kick in again. So it will be a day that was gonna agree on there be as it now is in February probably if they don't exercise captioned by that date. They're bound to stay. Right now we have a similar arrangement although ran for most of ten years were each year in February the bills could say there and exercise what was then of you're the option to relocate and him and the team hates it when anyone mentions this but Ralph Wilson is not a young man. All of this would stay in fact working out on the scene yes this agreement is with the team. -- franchise. And some of the things we negotiated was to make sure that. Both the league makes any new owner fully aware that there are bound by these closest we'll have a document that effect in which -- -- will say it. We will say the contract will say it. And that the team the franchise is bound by this not to individuals involved. And I knew won't it would be buying that franchise and all of the stuff you just described yes just we're in a -- the players' contracts. They'll be buying this -- are. Why is this -- not com. But while they're never be another Rolling Stones concert Orchard Park. Why is this an exclusive lease with the bills will -- all the bills have the right to hold concerts they hold over a hundred events a year at the stadium now I've got a list of them. But what's happened with major events is that the I believe the music business has changed so much. They don't take the risk of bad weather events for these major concerts now that have so much electronics involved so much setup. Often pyrotechnics. Bad weather it could drown concert. And they don't want they don't want the liability that they financial plight you know of all the bad weather event so what they end up doing is holding these concerts -- an indoor venues. They might hold that it on first Niagara center here. Or in the very big event in domed stadiums -- -- -- -- side very much all the governor's announcement referred to this deal as a 130. Million dollar deal. How much of that is a tax -- obligation how much of that is that some obligation. On. -- -- the deals 130 million dollars for capital to build the stadium there are the cost which we will go into okay. But the roughly it's ninety million dollars of public sector capital. And roughly. 3540 million for the for the bills I can give -- exact numbers. But it's we're like 94 million in there like 35 in a general sense what are we obligated to do as taxpayers where they obligated to his team -- -- for so that the the first thing to bear in mind. Is it to -- follows the last one. Very closely. The total cost the taxpayers. Even though the deals a lot more expensive the total cost of the tax -- over the coming ten years is only eleven million dollars more than the current lease. So it's eleven million dollars more split between state and county. Fairly modest amount the deal itself so much more expensive because the bills are throwing in the difference. So the bills are pro union 35 million of capital. And they're putting roughly ten million dollars rent. Hence the deal gets to around 270 million total. But our cost to the taxpayers. Has only gone up that small amount. With regard -- -- construction 130 million dollars all of our money will cool common fund. And all be paying more or less the same items what the improvements that take place in the state. And what is the split involving New York State and Erie -- -- what it it it's complicated. Deal but it starts. With as between us not with -- clean -- share the State's 57%. And work 43%. That's true for construction and that's what it was last time. For the operating expenses starts at 5743. Between us. And it could trends towards 5050 in the out years for the operating expenses the weighted average has just about 54%. State. A 46% county. Where does that money go what what what will we be building that well for so -- All of us the bills aren't in what state will will be building it's yours improvements the stadium. It's important to bear in mind. That are on this started as -- a request from the bills 400 and -- -- for 230 million almost whose 220 million. The improvements breakdown between technology. Which includes new video scoreboard and east and shall be one each into the stadium. -- whole variety of telecommunications. Improvements to enhance the high definition TV for people watching at home. -- changes like that upgrades to the circulation include the big new plaza whenever road. Branding and profiling relocated team store right things of that sort. Bomb just renovations of the current space hasn't it substantially renovated quite awhile. And this whole series of changes that will take place including concession airs improvements to kitchens improvements to the way food sold. On and then there are some improvements that the team wanted to training facility. And their operations center and the -- and changes in the press box and things like that. All right when we come back we're gonna talk about how the deal was done. And yes then of course there -- others economic arguments you heard last hour or in the first half hour rather there was a lot of discussion about how this is a gift. From the taxpayers. Which has an argument against that to get to that right after this tyrant like a news radio 9:30 AM 107 point seven FM WB yen. 8030930s. -- members to get on board now will be going to calls right after the news break. Rich Toby is here deputy Erie county executive the man who for the most part. Was Erie county's lead negotiator at the table hammering out the deal for Ralph Wilson Stadium. It is again if you're just joining us it was announced on Friday overall it's. A deal that includes about a 130 million dollars in upgrades to Ralph Wilson Stadium. It's about them when you say it's 54 of it's a 3743. Between the state can't percentage split okay and of the bills are in for 35 million of that. Capital construction now address the argument that was made today in the prior segment that this is money. That taxpayers are putting up. And it's -- just go into Ralph Wilson's pockets in Detroit that there's no multiplier effect here. There's no real impact on our local economy we are subsidizing some guy who's taking money out of the area. It's important argument -- another very important argument about what the public wants which we believed to keep the team here. But the economics can't be ignored and end and I will get to this that the psychic they visit the -- Psychological benefits and second but but if we're looking strictly on economic terms. Return on investment yes or is there RO I hear yeses of substantial one on the sixteen years ago we had the buffalo Niagara partnership help us with the economic study to show there's a positive benefit from the team here. But -- overwhelmingly. Positive economic development benefit but not a great not a -- on what we did this year was rather than go through that exercise again. We looked at just one key data point. And that is how much money New York State collects and personal income tax because the teams here. There have none of that the teen was not here. And -- very large number because they are you talking with holding on players' salaries yes so the total salaries for players front office and some are non taxable benefits. In one year -- a 168. Million dollars that's the Buffalo Bills payroll as they've told to us. They do with holding tax upon that and just from the team. That eat that all that yields. A 140. Million dollars to New York State over the ten years of this -- And the overall package we're looking at here is less -- that yesterday the total cost of the stadium improvements 130 million. So is that is that -- those are small positive just from that. The State's top payment total amount that -- a pink zone that we're paying some of it. But that we expect that because these players all New York State tax residents. All of their income not just from the team from their salaries goes there but over ten years 140 million dollars to New York State personal income tax. The team. Our reports that to us reports to the state in addition any additional income that the players earned from endorsements which don't -- -- Through investment earnings from a business opportunities that they -- -- earn money from would also be taxable to your state. Every penny of that would be lost if the team moved to another community so this pays for itself. And then the the realist and I imagine cascades down as well. Granted houses may already be built but. The market for one million dollar homes in Erie county. -- a little bit more when he got twenty guys out there that bar football players yeah I'm what fifty but yes OK and as we find out many of them remain here. To their careers are over it happens over and over again. -- BS news that the team and it ripples through the real estate market it ripples through sales tax. We've got twenty to 30% of the attendance depending on who were playing our Canadians. For large tendons from Pittsburg and we played them from New York -- for the jets. -- is a lot of benefits this area. It's not the highest rate of return units you know and account -- project but deposit rate of return all right now what about the psychological. Science -- I grew up in New York City and it was born in Brooklyn. And I. Who lived through the World Series winner of the Brooklyn Dodgers and the next year they're leaving the community. It's still rankles. It's still hurts the -- a lot of psychology in Brooklyn in the second class place. To mammoth Manhattan. -- the second. Most popular baseball cap to the sold to the hall of fame every year is the Brooklyn Dodgers baseball. Whoever won the World Series comes first. And in the Dodgers year after year to year and I bought one a cracked I lived through the loss of a team to Los Angeles. This time around Los Angeles is again in play as a potential place for sports team that I agree I literature. To leave. It hurts a lot and you're not the only one who has referred to this bring in Doris Kearns Goodwin if you can't. Yet our SARS -- could result of the Pulitzer Prize winning historian. Bomb we grew up couple -- apart we didn't know each other but we lived through these same experiences. And but she wrote a very very popular book called wait till next year and memoir of the Brooklyn Dodgers who she rooted for as -- And she said. -- is that right ring from her book. Sometimes sitting in the park and is now in Boston where she lives with my boys. I imagine myself back at its field a young girl once more in the presence of my father watching the players in my youth. Jackie Robinson Duke -- -- Campanella Gil Hodges. There's magic in these moments when it opened my eyes and she my -- in the place where my father once sat. I feel invisible bond among our three generations. And anchor of loyalty and love licking my sons to the grandfather. Whose face they have not and never seen -- person. They have come to know through these most timeless sports. It means a lot to us I talked to people who come over and over about being to their first football game. With the father as did the lieutenant governor when he was here recently talk about being there. It links us together paying part of our community and you are comfortable putting a dollar figure on that magic on that feeling. There have to be limits we can't pay anything for that. But we should be willing to hear reasonableness and I think we've done so I'm right in 030930s number on the other side of the news break we're gonna delve into it more with rich Toby. Deputy Erie county executive will talk a little bit -- what a week he's had a lot of midnight phone calls no doubt we'll get into the lease and now's the time to call to if you want -- cast your phones we'll get to that in just a little bit. After the news break we're gonna run down phone lines he's with us till about 1130. And we transition into a discussion of the fiscal -- 8030930s. Number it's hard line on news radio 930 WB and time to talk politics it's hard line on news radio nine. -- now here's -- yeah. And what do we it is tough politics we are discussing the Buffalo Bills. And their newly signed at least for Ralph Wilson Stadium with Erie county and the state. Deputy county executive rich Toby is here we're ready to take your calls they don't real in my thirties the number. It's an eighteen page document the contract itself but there are 41 different kind of supporting documents. There is a lot in there is the point and if there's something in there that you'd like to question may be wise it -- such -- Is there clause in there that does this. You wanna know more about the agreement this is the guy that helped negotiate the deal 8030930s. Number. Maybe you're someone who says hey we should not be spending taxpayer money on this this is the guy the rebut those arguments 803930s. Number. That's a ticket off this segment with the phones again which Toby is here deputy Erie county executive. My name's Dave -- -- buffalo it's your turn high. -- guys say accord has -- may have my -- should go up at all. And he always says the public wants to Barbara called me and ever ask me. Why don't they have opponents some like this ridiculous phonetic at a money and give it -- teams that pay one player honor million dollars and the command you know enough is enough finesse sport stuff. Okay the in our form of democracy. We have a legislature that represented that the people. These items will go before a vote of the Erie county legislature so they still have to sign off on this before it actually happened yes what we signed was a memorandum of understanding. Subject to approval of the Erie county legislature. They'll then be a second bite of the apple when we go back to them with a full panoply of definitive documents where they will also be asked to vote a second time. But we did us some years ago is when I was with -- ticket or -- to a public opinion poll about the bills this was in the 1990s. And about 9% of the public in those years really supported the bills it was a massive. Outpouring of support can't we argue though in the years sense anti taxpayer it's anti tax sentiment has risen. Yes of course he's he's a -- and I guess that the anti tax sentiment was strong and it's stronger now I think. And there's more disappointment with the performance of the team on the field also. But we will see what happens when the when the public debate starts we've laid out a proposal. There's an old saying that the executive proposals and the legislature disposes. We're confident they will approve this. But they will be holding hearings it you'll bump I'm prepared to go meet with the public and discussed just described the deal. And we'll see with a balance of opinion is as a legislature prepares for a vote. That probably would take place on this sometime in January. You know three in my thirties and amber hi it's your turn you're on the air. They. -- I would date a Janet writes -- listen. Rich. You know. -- Wilson my -- -- you getting criticism because of pop this getaway to -- -- -- but I I I take the opposite viewpoint and Altria life. Earl Wilson is the out. He could he made a commitment to awful. And he lost probably two or 300 million dollars by doing net if you put. The team in the open market -- well. He would make probably thirty or 40% more as far as sales price schools because of -- market here -- think you know huge sacrifice. By limiting his options. And I I think he got -- -- with a -- Olson and in what you hit the do. It was necessary. Because he made eighteen separately and I think it's it's kind or up. You know the the area in the state to make if there is also so I think it was a win win situation. And I am I'm sure you agree with they had. It is I bogeyed that are real good job and negotiated deal. Thank you John I've had two great bonuses from during this negotiations. One -- I got to meet lieutenant governor Duffy -- your former mayor. He's a terrific man of great strip sports fan and a Buffalo Bills fans and representing Governor Cuomo has done a phenomenal job on in helping us with the steel. Are your main point. About mr. Wilson is my other bonus I've got to see him and know him a little bit. On the he's sort of a throwback in his own right I would take his handshake. If I would be happy to just take his handshake and say we've got to deal unfortunately at times don't allow that. But he's been with us for fifty years here in buffalo with this team to board the 25000. Dollars that was his entry price. Into the league. The team's worth at least 800 million dollars now. We think if the team we're sold now almost all of that money -- million might be profit. But Ralph Wilson has told us he will never sell the team and will never move from buffalo. As well as financially viable we believe him and he's looked up to that. Was there any discussion in the talks in any regard a succession plans. We had to be conscious of mr. -- JH. What we sought to do was to get a deal that will be binding upon. Mr. Wilson which was no problem he agreed to that -- and who everything new owner will be. We -- there will be new owner someday we don't know when maybe it's more than ten years we hope so. But it was within this ten year period. What we've negotiated will be binding upon the new owner. And so it's a deal with the franchise and the team not with an individual. How easy was it to get the teen to agree to the -- here at the numbers on what -- 400 million. But not hard at all because in their mind do you think they. Sure I'll I'll be willing to forfeit 400 million dollars. -- long as I am confident that I will never have to pay 400 million dollars that the -- that's the way they look at it I believe so that they that was not hard. To get a very big price. On because in I think in their eyes literally have to pay it because they don't intend to leave. This might be asking you to betrayed confidences that you can't and I'll give you little wiggle room there you can dance if you have to. But what was the sticking point was there something 'cause I remember that -- there was a while back when we thought oh gosh we've got extended to April -- not gonna have a deal by the end of the year. Things look bleak. And then all of a sudden heat turns on and here we are. You have marathon meetings came together oh talk about the turning point talk about the sticking point that made things bleak event and how that was surmounted. Now. They were never leak in the sense I didn't think -- get a deal. I -- ever swelling your darkest fears but no we are confident we would have a deal. The bills wanted it to state wanted and we want to -- it governor quo almost committed on the State's behalf to do their part as were we and the bills want to stay. I was confident that someday we get to deal. There are lots of little ups and downs but forceful I like to say is that all. -- it all's well that ends well and the things that we were most concerned about we overcame mostly through good talks. But one of those setbacks. Ironically enough was hurricane -- them that we were very close. And then as was right. The governor's attention out of the senior staff had returned to New York State's response to the disaster downstate. As we would expect them to turn to our aid if something like that happened here. So we lost about a month. But that was not proving that not because to deal was in jeopardy that wasn't content that was logistics logistics of another event had occurred. And -- we fully supported the need for a rapid reply to a hurricane we send staff down there we help the state. Maybe Jerusalem close together because so much support we provided them. But in the end we understood that to the degree you can talk about it what was the largest point of difference between say the county in bills. Well the the the deal started 220 million dollars stadium renovations along and we basically took a hundred million dollars out. And the question was -- future of the stadium and how much money should go into. A stadium that will be vertical pilgrim 51 years old when this lease expires. And at some point we begin to talk about the creature. And and was a -- to continue to put more money into that stadium a lot more money. It or -- -- diverted towards a new stadium and and a and a future home for the Buffalo Bills. That was a critical turning point when I think the bill saw. That that was to their advantage as much as it was force so talk a little bit about that what is in there in regard to the future and some day. Having a stadium different from what we've got now there's a fund that was in this release and in the prior one. That is money that we pledge to continue to make improvements to the stadium each year where landlord would. And we don't know quite what items will be but we've established some of money. During this ten years at the end of six year the -- and state. Can take half of their contribution. No questions asked to begin to plan for new stadium. That there was enough time truth to figure out or might wanna do. And will yield at least eleven million dollars you've seen the cement studies you know that this is a forty year old stadium you think that's wise. Yes the stadium this game has more life in it in the ten years we continue to maintain it. But it's running its its course and economic life there are two things will stand up and -- people who -- safely in the answers yes. And probably at the end of ten years also. Does this plan in any way address site considerations. Yes you committed to reviewing the possibility of -- new stadium. Do you reviewing new downtown stadium to review another one somewhere in Orchard Park where does this new stadium and a being. That's the money will help us decide that a committee's gonna be formed to look at it Clooney will be formed until at least the spring when we finished deals. On this still has to be approved by the National Football League when the final documents at -- when documents are all finished. Arm but thereafter will begin to consider where to put a new stadium last time we did their public opinion survey. But heck about a third of the people want the stadium where is third want to -- in buffalo and a third wanted it somewhere else north towns. East of eastern part of your county. We will consider all locations. But the governors made clear the hopes we can find one a site in buffalo. I think that would be good if we can do. And we will do a lot of work to you can find a site in the city of buffalo work tell me more about that I haven't heard that before the governor is pushing for one downtown yet governor's been very very supportive of the city of buffalo has billion dollars for Buffalo's part of it. He's made clear that the Buffalo Bills are part of the economic revitalization this community we cannot suffer of a blow. That was her steam and prestige. Is part of his overall vision for the community and he said he hopes to be in buffalo not committed to buffalo. On and it's a long time out. But he's made clear that his focuses on the 42 square miles. Of the city of buffalo if we can do it 8030930s. Number Brandon -- park thanks for dialing in. There and the -- and that's the magician with you on -- statement. That the bills payroll. Over ten years. We generated a 140 million dollars -- from New York's great. -- statement to people who own reasons. Although only -- Christ -- and would being that the bill player played in New York State. Lowering one's hurt journal played it -- looks great for sharply those states and that. And those players will. People who goes straight and claim -- credit those answers. That -- -- and and New York I don't political client. A couple 140 million and so all you. You say that it's only more than 135 million. I think it is. Very misleading statement opened your comments. Okay thank you that these things are complicated but here's how it works. The bills each -- obligated to a 182. A service days towards the team all of those are generally with in Erie county it makes the New York State tax residents. You're right when they play an away game they may be taxed in the away stayed in the get a credit for that. But the same thing happens when a player from an opposing team comes here and place there taxed. By New York State when they play at our stadium creating roughly a wash. But the so that the game -- payments. Alone are the same mostly. Are either way were away half the time home at the time. We collect taxes from the visiting team the way they collected when were away. But. But what ends up happening. On is that of the total salary that the bills are paid are not spread -- seven games are among -- 182 days that they are here. And make him the next attacks residence. All right great stuff of -- called -- time thank you. Enough time squeeze and a couple more phone calls with rich Toby deputy Erie county executive the point man in all of those talks on the stadium. They reached a -- deal today we're talking about that Europe Friday they reached -- we're talking about it today. Michael buffalo go ahead it's your turn. Hi the question I have is about who decides who's on this committee to study in the new stadium. In how. Transparent. Will that these search B I'm very interested in his new. Proposal for a other Harvard stadium by the greater buffalo. Sports and entertainment complex. And concerned about the link that understanding in Orchard Park. OK so about four questions right hum. First though that the committee will be made up of our appointees of Erie county New York State the Buffalo Bills. And it's the NFL wish to participate they -- can appoint somebody. But it's basically the state candy and bills who -- -- serving. Hum we will have to find the right balance between transparency. And confidentiality. The reason for that is that if we're beginning to look at a potential site. Land values could skyrocket due to speculation about oh where the stadium might go -- And it's all we've got to be careful and not giving some people a heads up on driving up prices. I'm so -- will be confidential most of it would be public. And anything that happens at the talent a decision would be either Republican and significantly debated. What about the proposal lets them put forth for the domed stadium in the outer harper when he spots. Well first I think America's great place people can make proposals can do work and can add to the public debate. I think that's great. But. Hum we looked at that side as we have looked at others. And I think there are enormous difficulties with -- primarily because of the -- transportation infrastructure that's there or likely to be available. To get at a Psycho endorsed yet the skyway if we ever had a really bad storm on game day. I'm happy would have get a and in any event the road infrastructure is is very weak. And even with their proposed. Subway lines -- mystery Angela going in there. It's not possible on them to -- -- people out of there as fast they would -- ago. On on the public transit. So they thought hard about it they've got some nice parts of their proposal. But I think the locations just plain too confined it's a little small all sorts about a 150 acres and our currency is about 200. But putting that aside I just don't think -- transportation system works is going north or south. And no ability to go east to west. So I think it's too confined in two. Will be too heavily impacted by the weather I think a lot of them thought. In that particular site was this would be in events center in an area that needs events. That does that the ideal for more than a football stadium. Incorporating convention center having a lot more activity in the downtown area and oh by the way we have this huge plot of land that happens. The outer harbor. I'm sure that was the thinking. And making a comprehensive -- was attractive. Alone. Bring hotels in his -- part of this and you hotels for conventions senators. -- but fundamentally. Sharing infrastructure and using it so the parking in public expenses are used among multiple. Uses. For consent that is a good thought. Another everything has to work the first Niagara center has a ramp up its own but also adjoining lots that are used by. The banks and businesses during the day yes and that's the kind of -- you're talking about here the -- hopefully -- that that's that's the idea that's what's happening in the major cities where they have downtown venues. Often a football and it's baseball stadium sharing. Space and -- parking just the way first Niagara not only has its own parking. And and uses a joint parking during the day people use theirs parking. For downtown workers all right and can ask for -- forbearance I don't know if you have. Something to you need to be too after this number OK okay we've got couple calls on holt Bob and Clarence Centre thanks for holding we got him. Well I'm really offended by this political double talk mr. Eddie Haskell character. I believe it was very nice warm seat is stadium Alberto is unique construction workers and construction company will be donating his political campaign heavily. In a lot to dinners and -- -- people vote down. Is the decide who's gonna get this country would our tax money -- the ball only about half from the stated it happened. -- from -- local government is not that the dollar monies -- tax money. People move here for football and move your verbal taxes. So all he's doing he's just make it my little. Place for himself and his buddies did have a great afternoon was -- despite warm seats -- other -- and it's a lot of baloney despite a double talk. All right what you say rich let let's talk about the contractor how was that -- -- contract to pick through competitive bidding. -- added to what we to a public works projects -- recovered by state and local law. Com I don't have a heated seat actually -- the stadium. I'm pleased to have my wife and families to share tickets we don't know but we pay for them ourselves. What what what about the broader political argument that the the caller made me be more forcefully -- I. The idea that this is all politics that this is just different groups coming together sort of solve the room. We think the public watches. We did the opinion polls so many years ago it seemed that way it seems that way today. I shudder to think what would've happened if a team -- -- to leave and how what this community we feel like you know would react. We believe is what the public wants the islands which will help us determine that when they vote. But we think this is. Not only fiscally responsible deal but it's good for the community awesome and what about the -- -- -- argument that segregating out the state portion. And the county portion. It's really kind of speeches because it is dollar taxpayer dollars it's our taxpayers' dollars. But some of the state chair. Would not be coming to this community but this deal. That to be sure this state would collected. But their directing more of -- -- would have been the case otherwise so -- was so the fact that Robin Hood steals from us in this callers in this callers mind. The fact that revenues stealing from us to your mind is is okay as long as giving back to us well I'm not quite charities that metaphor to describe mayfield is that the state. But. It's. Taxes would not go down if we didn't do this deal he's double negative but taxes remain where they are with the without deal. But the statement is now coming to us when it otherwise would have all right last call -- squeeze in Brian in buffalo thanks for waiting it's your turn now. I what when you're talking about the economic impact. And according numbers is bureau for commercial purposes. You're gonna cash flow. -- sport be the project. Or is what remembering hearing on an economic. And -- the next ten years. Are you quoting numbers that are our error are discounted for what you really. No action is the opposite from what we ended up doing was I just used the the current value. Trends that -- brought forward as if there was no inflation. So there is no calculate there is -- factor in there for cost of capital or for a and 44 present value. Of folks woke up to par or. You're saying -- you're that there -- -- these are numbers that are that don't take into effect any inflation. Or oral. Or any present. I -- it but let me I'm sorry and truck and mean to but let me be clear the the numbers that I thought you were asking me about. Where the payments that the that the state will be collecting from the team's personal income tax payments. We did not trend those forward with inflation based estimate. So on the that actual court. -- different things there are a few bogeys aren't much different things. I thought about the present value when you say okay cash flow out so certainly there are a hundred dollars for a new respect and I don't know what the target about okay. Our tax dollars that the compact it and you're not -- and going those those numbers so a dollar ten year out. Well or whatever it took -- dollar today it's worth more than a dollar from our popular in the hands of the present though it. Sure of course bottom line enforced by we're almost out of time here. Why not look we didn't we we did it was some of the numbers not with all of them are that quote. Some of the ones according to what did with. The 130 million is -- -- Yeah the the 130 million. Yet the 130 million does not include the cost of the money that's the cost of building. The stadium. Of the improvements and we don't have within that number. Though the cost of money capital that's right that's not in there in some of the other numbers we do you have on inflation based estimates but not -- that. What -- what according numbers like that you're not you're mixing at all or is its outreach to make your argument. That the quote the other side worse if you actually do the careful projection. And you figured -- assumptions and I guess really the question was out how transparent the that would be them. Because your arguments are specious because we're not -- -- -- Apple's largest. Number one. Your your -- sound like okay. Order to make all this money over V over the next ten years it's not brother Billy clubs are reporting today. If you're not also including and there are the cost of apple -- blue numbers that you're quoting are necessarily. Speak to the and I don't I don't mean to be. I know we we get. The argument has a lot bigger than the time we have left so I'm gonna have to let you go but but. Basically rich you're saying that the return on investment. Is based on certain numbers he's arguing that those are valid numbers because you have an accountant always for inflation and neither of the numbers. Have inflation. 130 million of construction cost of inflation. And the amount that the bills will be paying percent inflation. Easily use the cost. That the payments at the players make. And based upon past trends. Although far faster than inflation so what kind of faith and we have in the return on investment portion of these numbers in light of callers who we think we've. Understated. The true value of this team to. Lose to the community into the state. Because what we've not done and that the players' salaries have gone up far faster than the rate inflation. We do not include a forward looking estimate on that over the next. And if you live tour for now. The -- low interest rates we're gonna get now because is very low interest rate environment is gonna be far less than the inflation occurs with the players. But we know what number to use as the as we look forward into player contracts and players' salaries on this topic is a lot bigger question acting for the full two hours. -- can act as it gets to a public hearing time and try to do this again. Glad you were able to be here.