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Why Romney Lost, How Obama Won

Nov 11, 2012|

with GOP Analyst Carl Calabrese, Dem. Operative Steve Pigeon, GOP Atty. Emilio Coliacovo, and Prof. Gabriel Sanchez, U of NM.

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Here's W. Watch a week it is tough politics for the next two hours. I have a -- topic is pretty obvious to most of you we are going to be analyzing all of the election results from this past week and we have a range of panelists ready view that for you with you. If along the way you'd like to join the conversation of course we welcome you to do that 8030930s. Number let's start out. By looking at the Latino vote in particular. We have an expert from the University of New Mexico on the line with us. Gabriel Sanchez has studied the vote across the nation you may have -- call he was on the program awhile back. Plan governor Romney was. Contemplating the idea of Susanna Martinez or possibly Marco Rubio as vice presidential choice we have among man. We thought this would be a good opportunity to bring them on in and talk about some of the issues of the race now professors Sanchez thanks for being here sir. Well thank you good feedback -- A lot of the analysis is focused on nine. The demographics of the Latino vote let's start there. Other than the idea that no ethnic group is a monolith. That that. That all of all of the analysis needs a big asterisk in that regard. What is the one -- if you like to dispel what is the one piece of analysis you saw this past week about the Latino vote that you just does not wash. Well I think there's always been this notion that regionally you know you got pockets of Latinos in some states that. I'll lean Republican largely because of the same moral values or respect -- job you know respect and of course all the things of that nature. Luckily alleging the decisions we had election -- -- the night before the elections surveys about well that the State's -- the national survey. So we can look at the numbers across the states and it was clear regardless of what region you're looking at overwhelming majority of Latino voters. Support President Obama in this election so at least for the last two election cycles you can say that this is much more of I'm not quite a monolithic voting -- Definitely a strong arm of the democratic coalition even in the state of Florida where you know there's always been this notion of the Cuban American vote. According heavily Republican even and that's -- you got 58%. What you know voters overall vote. For President Obama and I include a large segment of the Cuban American population particularly folks a report here in the US and I'm naturalized citizens. -- strong connection to Cuba Cuban politics with the US why you got the figure -- Why do they swing democratic is it is it policies on immigration. Is it a historical. My parents voted this way kind of thing what what's going on there. Well that the larger reason why. For the most part of the Cuban vote in Florida attended a goat was a Republican Party was all about US relations with Cuba particularly you know -- dynamic. Now is that demographic changes. We have more Hispanic voters in that state -- actually non Cubans there's people don't realize this is more we're -- right now on and Miami Dade County that are Cuban Americans. So as the democratic -- I think that downplayed their Cuban vote overall terms of their political power strength in national elections and you've got a lot of Cuban Americans were born here in the United States. Who think just like any other let you know. They don't really have a strong connections all -- -- they they don't quite well they earn -- warrant. Up very issue and so when you look at whole number of other domestic policy issues they look like any other Hispanic. More broadly speaking can the Republicans get the Latino vote he said this is the second election in a row where they really. Didn't necessarily have a. Yeah I mean I think there's. A lot of baggage there aren't a lot of work they'll have to be darn. But when you talk about getting the Latino vote I think people don't realize the Republican Party doesn't have to do as much as 50% of the Hispanic vote. Our our projections indicate for the first time ever in American history looking over probably a decisive. Voting -- meaning that they actually help swing the overall outcome. -- -- hit Mitt Romney were able to get 35% Latino vote our data source that only got 23%. But let's assume it got even 35% which is more in line with most Republican candidates the Latino voters are recently he would have been able to win the popular well. So in terms of the Republican Party you know it's not like they have to get the majority Latino vote when national election but they're gonna have to do significantly better than what they're doing now. How do they do that in your opinion do they throw Marco Rubio on a ticket or do they changed their stance on immigration. What kind of things would move that number just the small amount you suggest. Well I think -- might remember from the last time we chatted you know putting Marco Rubio Susanna Martinez and these other upcoming election Republicans on the it is. Really wanted -- true. A lot of Latino voters outside of the specific regions where these folks -- popular don't quite have that strong connection to -- you look at Marco Rubio. Outside of Florida particularly outside of the Latino Republicans most were not Democrats -- can really have any -- connection tumor at all a lot of them don't even know years. So I think that such symbolic effort won't do the -- I think what you're gonna have to do is really think deep and hard about changing at least the stance on some of the main domestic policy issues. Been a lot of discussion about immigration. On that one I think it'll be much more likely of being the home. You know move away from some of the inflammatory language like self deportation. You know Romney was very very aggressive in terms -- saying he would be talks between Mac. That's a policy that's supported by close to 90% Latino voters regardless of party. So I think -- a a couple of things like that would at least open the door -- changes. But there's other policy issues that would you don't care about that you know Romney was on the wrong -- others -- which -- a Latino voter preferences. Tax policy education policy -- number of other issues so we can't just focus only on immigration without I would be the best was sort. Is there wiggle room though some of the things on tax policy and education policy. There's obviously a gulf between Republicans and Democrats there are certain things that I do not picture. The party compromising on what kind of issues do you see them able to move to the center on and embrace some of the Latino vote. You know -- -- the issue you know will the party relief. Take the risk of moving toward selecting -- to secure that long term voting bloc which is critical for the long term efforts. But also could sacrifice from their voting -- right now. I think you're exactly right I don't I don't see that happening overnight I think there's gonna take us some time to develop and a lot of strategy on the Republican side. Not even if they don't change Serbs say immigration policy their overall use and the policy preference -- I think. Just softening its own would be a big deal in our data on -- national election but he basically indicated that. Romney's language so deportation. He told the DREAM Act use of illegal aliens to those kind of inflammatory terms. A big component overwhelming majority of Latino voters indicated that about our file. Towards the Latino community so I think moving away some of the hospital messaging alone. My at least do a better job of offering some of that package that -- from what you know both. Our present Sanchez thanks -- with us this morning. Thank you sir that's doctor Gabriel Sanchez of the University of New Mexico. His local -- about Latinos let's start talking about Florida Steve pigeon is here former chair of the Erie county Democratic Party. An attorney who was working with a team of attorneys down in Broward County around Miami. Working on behalf of the Obama get out the vote team also some of the legal efforts there. Talk about what he just said do you agree with what you saw well I agree with a little -- He said but I think that immigration is an important issue but it seemed to me that. As much to do with where the Hispanic vote and of this year was it the kind of and I think that on economic issues. Around mean message which seemed to be don't tax the job creators don't tax 1%. Talking about that type of entrepreneurial. Ism. Culturally. Just. I don't think plays in Hispanic community. You know what we have with Hispanic culture is an -- there against entrepreneur realism -- hard worker any of that but. I think that they realize that there are some government programs that actually help people. Move you know from lower rungs of the economic letter of Ireland's economic -- that not all government is bad. That some government you know when when you look at things in our history like the GI bill. There's been plenty of government that is actually that affect the economy in a positive way and put people into the middle class. So I think that the president's message. You know maintaining and building -- middle class and letting people be able to achieve doable. Dream of a moving up that economic platter is probably hit it as strong as immigration and he's right. There was a lot of hard toned rhetoric especially in the Republican primary I think that. I've seen a lot of Republicans say that oh we we didn't win this is we are. -- can -- candidate was not conservative enough that we should have had Rick Santorum -- Newt Gingrich or we should have been more. Conservative Republican I actually think if if Rick Santorum was the nominee either wood -- landslide proportions. I think what the message that. Ought to be taken out of this is that we do need that the Republicans really need to moderate. From that far right friends that have been controlling the party now what I saw down in Florida. I was absolutely. Amazed at the -- -- systematic voter suppression. That was being done by the Florida Republicans. It started with these voter ID bill that they passed. When these voter ID laws that were passed around the country. No one's ever shall but there was this massive fraud going on that we needed voter ID laws but yet they passed that. They put on the ballot all kinds of the legislature put her direct referendums on the ballot which -- about ten page ballot that. And then they made sure that the machines in the poorest areas in the most democratic areas that they did receive the amount of machines in -- for the people that were voted and that's what caused some power lines. Last week on the program you and I talked a little bit about the geography and Florida how you can't necessarily -- say the the entire state goes one way you have conservative panhandle. You have a more moderate middle and then you have the strong democratic base around Broward where you were. On election night I I ended up speaking with Michael Bhutto. Campaign operative on many different races I think he's actually done about 77 them from across the nation. Here's what he had to say about Florida. That -- fourth quarter widows or Donnelly from Tampa to Orlando to Daytona. It's the red belt Florida and -- Romney you don't outperform in those areas in frighteningly. Obama did very well. And some of those areas. He got more independence basically in that middle ground is that is that when you -- yet it is it is not I wouldn't he called the red belt I wouldn't call it the red belt it's a swing well. They often vote Democrat comfortable. All right now let's bring in Carl calabrese Republican. Analysts someone we've had on the program before obviously Karl. I have a hunch is a few things there that Steve -- and just -- -- -- -- -- out of surprised that just a couple clear that reducing yours and by the way David I've brought. To be retired after today. The you know Paul -- buck 050 it might have to admire and envy over this entire campaign season is officially gets retired after today's. -- all right but -- specifically asked what Steve said. The idea that the Republicans. May be need to soften their rhetoric. I did you nodding your head when he said Santorum would have been even more landslides -- -- I I think anybody on the net. I'm most podiums in those stages with Romney. Whether -- -- Gingrich buck in -- Cain Santorum. -- in got a whole list of them Perry. It would have been a blow out and if you were called Dave I was said that the advantage for Romney was he met the -- rule. The most conservative Republican who could win. Not that he would win but who could win. And he passed that test than. You know in in a primarily -- feel like I think I think for your -- -- diaries theories wrong Republican field of contenders because of the governor as we've elected. We don't have thirty states that have Republican governors. There progressive conservatives. They're there in acting conservatism wage should be enacted at the state level and -- would have very very good records to run and especially. Compared to what's gonna happen in California with a with a supermajority Democrats though part of the legislature but. Yeah I I do think it would have been a blow with anybody else running. Because the nation wants some more moderate. No you know while I was there is gonna kick out and Democrats tell Republicans what they need to do to be more compelling might be more moderate. It's titled the Trojan horse what we need and I think the best way to phrases to quote Charles -- Charles Krauthammer said the problem Romney is he speaks conservatism as a second language and like anybody who speaks secondly which it's something. Not quite right not quite fluent nuances -- missed words or misused. We need to conservative. Who speaks conservatism as a first language we need a Jack Kemp conservative who talks about the opportunity society talk about with professors Sanchez talked about. What does the Republican Party offer people in terms of individual liberty empowerment. And opportunities Democrats with them. Primarily a government one size fits all approach to everything and large taxes large deficits and I'll -- you garrido telling us that you're telling us what. Your Republicans say -- Democrat well won't -- -- -- we can go a bit Steve -- that's what I think republic and we will offer in the future. Not just to win the Hispanic vote. But two to win back independents to win -- Reagan Democrats. That's what we need to talk about I think you're gonna hear that but it's it's difficult time to while helping her out at Cleveland that. Let me just jump in because. I I was just me merely speaking out as a Democrat but as an observer. And I don't think and knowing you knew Jack -- -- camp I don't think Jack Kemp would have ran around. Talking about sending kids home actually not far from immigrants I don't think he would have been talking the way Mitt Romney was talking about. You know I'm gonna veto the DREAM Act. And is Ferris didn't met Randy I think. He speaks English as a second language he had trouble yeah trouble really and relating anybody in weather being speaking conservatism or even speaking English he is a and odds syntax he liked sports. He he -- relate really to anybody except maybe you know some guys somewhere in a country club. You know back in the 1950s but. I agree used to that when when he used that term. Self deportation and whatever debate it was I cringe guys aboard this one's gonna come back this is not a word you -- when it -- communicate exactly right I -- it was terrible choice of words and it Harden along with fuel things throughout the campaign but but yeah I think he was the strongest candidate of that field. Against Obama yeah but. But I think but we have embraced tax cuts -- to -- class we have we did the payroll checks were talking about just just simply. Not letting the bush tax cuts for the highest earners in place which. Which no outside economic. Analysts has said that keeping that -- -- where it is produces anything in the academy -- any job creation just simply going back to the -- was under Bill Clinton that's what it was not a very -- -- -- -- -- people making over 250 -- -- -- and those people -- important in this economy you can't have a free enterprise system campuses asking them available tomorrow when we have a deficit our processes -- this is why -- -- probably is why you're gonna have problems to -- actually. Because you're seeing the party that just wants the standup. For for for the wealthiest -- now actually look wanna stand up we support our people are some more money which Robert job creators we support entrepreneurs. But asking them to but they did pretty well that the top 1% that pretty well under the Bill Clinton years. Paying 39%. Out of there is that a 35%. Is not asking for that big of a sacrifice when other people who have gone to fight wars. And when people are are are rarely makes their -- Clinton to Clinton did something that four presidents have done we've done it four times -- -- -- John Kennedy did. Jack Kennedy did the -- let me say that John Kennedy did that when the tiebreaker I was 19% that's fine it was 97 and ended December -- back out and about 35 to 39 you can hit driver error or some pro John Kennedy -- -- Let me finish please. John Kennedy Ronald Reagan. Bill Clinton and and George higher under Ronald Reagan and what they did his prior under Reagan can I finish what they did is they -- marginal tax rates and in every case in every case. Revenue to government increased I think. That's what we want we want ready to the government increased the cut the deficit because you're not gonna cut it by taxing the so called -- you know why this is simply can't that is an -- just one piece of for some balancing its gonna solve the deficit that's just one peachtree. And when you have acute respiratory rate like you did under Kennedy and Reagan. The cut makes sense there's another but it doesn't make sense when it's your talk much difference in 39 -- makes -- we got the dog almost certainly does it most certainly does. ST you whenever anyone talks about taxing the rich and a different level then the middle and -- -- -- -- -- lower income. Talk about the fairness there why is -- that certain groups who would have to pay because we always had a basis called a progressive text. Don't know -- yes there's a lot of Democrats me included. I would make the number higher Irish are at we are not gonna throw this economy I don't know another recession now and that's what the text number. I would. The rate that the not the -- number the income. I don't I think that people -- saying 250000 dollars. Putting those people and with the billionaires in the 1% isn't right we have eyes are right actually though what I would that was I would probably go with that number to million dollars. I think somebody making a million dollars or more you'd still capture a lot of -- somebody making a million dollars or more. Can afford to pay a few more percent when we have this horrible deficit we are late and anymore people the guys who -- for a break. There was a point of agreement there which is the perfect point jump in and say we will be back with more -- calabrese is here Steve page and if you're gonna open up all mines to. 8030930. Obviously talking about the elections and which message might have won it for the respective party. It's hard -- news radio 9:30 AM and 107 point seven FM WB yeah. It's hard line -- news radio 9:30 AM 107 point seven FM WVU and this gave people what else today. For the next ninety minutes we are talking about the election results we have analysts and studio partisans as it as they are. We have -- calabrese Republican we have Steve pigeon a Democrat the to a might be arguing a little bit and we'd like you can get in on the conversation the argument that discussion as well. 8030930s. The number. And guys I think there is probably. Some universal disagreement between the two view. As to the message I mean obviously when he's a Democrat with a Republican bullets sent the message aside for second and talk a little bit about tactics. There have been three series at least that I heard out there and maybe more the list could probably grow as long as we have time for. But there are three basic theories have been put out this past week about why -- is the President Obama won and why is that Mitt Romney lost. I want you to try and rank them it can't theory number one too old too white you didn't reach enough blacks and Latinos. Theory number two with the wrong guy that Romney wasn't aggressive enough for wasn't conservative enough or wasn't the right standard bearer for the party. And then there's number three again for talking tactics it's a basic organization. Ground game getting out the vote troops on the ground let's start with you -- which one of those three do you think was ultimately. V factor. Number three ground game. Really yes you know going into the race. As noise I'd been analyzing this thing since March when you've been looking -- yet all of since since it was apparent that Romney was going to be. And from everything I could measure that the keyword. I had this -- is gonna win this thing but there was one thing I couldn't measure which always gave me pause you could measure his. He has the position with the electorate in terms of head to head polling in its Wednesday it's independence the enthusiasm gap. At one point the general get disappeared. All of those the fact that no president -- and reelected when more than 50% of the country feels the country's on the wrong track you can measure rolls thinks he was sweeping. But there was that one issue and that is the under the radar screen ground game. Knowing that the Obama campaign did some really innovative things back in oh wait what about text messaging and new media. And the fact that they put together this -- question was could they keep together. And what they doing in all of these field -- he 129 field offices in Ohio. And I know Karl Rove one -- of well some of those are just one personal offices that they may be bought. What's that one person doing during the week we met one person is organizing volunteers to register voters. And they're doing each 110 a week you start doing the math 129 offices for two years three years. It -- it comes up to a huge army and if they did after 2000 intent. Those people were very very likely to go on polled. And not show up in the numbers so that always gave me very disconcerting uneasy feeling that. Like the movies Spartacus when -- in that last Biddle the Roman army and they think they're winning all of sudden three moreover we show up and over. I said you know they got there army under the radar screen and they're gonna show up on election night. This could be a serious problem and that's exactly what happens I would -- tech number three ground game. In my opinion was the biggest -- earlier in the program I heard you -- the wrong guy theory that that he was the best person of the field I mean you could say. Is there another Ronald Reagan out there and and and construct the hypothetical candidate but we we all in the real world of real politics he was the best candidate of their field. Going into the race what about the tool to white theory. I I I think message trumps everything if you have the right message. You can you can talk to people of different colors of different ages different groups and bring him in your tent but you gotta have the right message. With a -- in the same questions well to Walter White not enough ground game or wrong guy. Well I think I would put number four there okay commute or think that the message about the campaign. Was -- message that plays that allowed the ground game. Which was very very important he did him very solid ground game especially in the swing states allow them to attract. New people into his coalition I think. I don't buy that too old too white I don't think as matter that he was white I think it was the messenger of I think that he he he was someone who wasn't didn't seem to be able to relate to them to the general public. But I think -- the the the economic message that Obama talked about the forward message the realization I think that. Too often -- too quickly the Republicans just wanted to say oh you can't blame the past you can't keep blaming other people but it wasn't that long ago when. You know people remember that he inherited two wars that were failing. A near depression. You know just coming up the fiscal cliff so I think that when President Clinton at the convention was able to say no one. Could have dug a -- four years and matter but yesterday ground game. Lot of the polls were look at the polls were stagnant throughout in terms of everybody was only within the -- up life. Obama always did seem to have a lead in most of the -- most of the battleground states which is. While I always thought Obama would win these -- needed to he was behind two or three and in the eight battleground states he needed to win a smaller six or 70 how I set that be hard to do but what they did in that ground game and what that one guy did in an office. If you a lot of it was demographics. If you look at the 2008 demographics of who voted. -- -- wouldn't have done as well but when 6% of the overall vote knowing it was a Hispanic 10%. Was this time was the overall vote and he had ordered larger percentage of Hispanics that he did four years ago so he grew there well it. Let us into this. Late in the campaign both Gallup and Rasmussen came out with polls and more publicized you had to go on there web sites. And what they were trying to do was predict what the turnout was going to be. And Rasmussen poll 151000. People in jail almost 101000 these were big service. And based on that -- -- predicted it would be republic turnaround would be Republican plus six -- that happens it's a blow opera -- -- Gallup predicted Republican plus one that would have been a big win for Romney and when you looked at the numbers. If it was. Democrat plus one or two Ronnie was gonna win because of his lead with -- depends if it was Democrat plus three or four was a toss up anything over Democrat plus four. Was going to be of a big Obama win in this turn out came out to be Democrat plus six. Yeah I also think that rest recent Gallup -- -- -- about leaders to a lot of the other polling that I was looking at. Chris muse and of course has a contract with fox a lot of people in our party. This mistress -- legal conservatism of the progressive politics and galleries seemed to be the only one that was not clear when you really looked at it the average of all the polls. Silver in the New York Times that did that that column on that blog. Who he'd average everything you look as history looks state by state he was predicting all on exactly what that it. Well if you looked at the last couple big polls I think it was a ABC and NBC or maybe it was CBS and NBC. They came out and they were they were projecting. Democratic loss of about 8% almost essentially what happened in 2008. Based on what we could measure with the enthusiasm gap based on trends. Within state polls a lot of Republicans thought that was not gonna happen but for the ground game that was invisible. Steve I was looking did you do at trends and in those key states the trend was towards Romney Amy Obama had a twelve point lead. In March in Wisconsin there on the eve of election it's almost even -- in Pennsylvania we always. Believe that there was that they did that was going to once Romney energized his base I think what -- you remember around he was first -- -- -- wasn't able to get. The until May he's you know that -- with these primaries very divisive primary so we never believe the twelve point number. We never believe those those numbers they were always because Romney just can't liked his -- cut and his supporters and he we thought that would happen after the Republican Convention. Turned out he had a very poor Republican eventually did like anybody in and it took their first debate which admittedly Obama was flat. But their first debate as we liked and we always thought it was going to be close but we always thought we'd win Wisconsin. In Iowa and in we thought Ohio would be the that they -- the. Who edited a new -- or an additional tactic number four Connecticut got a five -- tour and our technical and this was critical. Right after all right after running secured the Republican nomination in the Obama team began on the negative is in the swing states spent. To find him to find him early and he never responded -- a lot of people thought well they must be doing trekking poles and seen that. It's moving therefore why spend money to respond if you don't have to. I don't. My basic philosophy and politics has always been no shot on answered. You've got it you can now he also had a small money yet -- -- the president in that because he was coming off primary and general election money. So they did have that little four week window where they knew they can outspend them ominously and and they decided they they also now because they also weren't they also weren't budgeted for October. So -- -- Obama took our address absolutely are not -- -- of raising money pleaded no all right so he he wanted to define Hemmer earlier took the risk of being sure not until this is what happens when your opponent define you that you defining yourself and that's sees that he planted basically that Romney is an out of touch vulture capitalist. I believe stable lots of people right through -- but that went around -- did in the 47% tape came out it's like everything that. It's wasn't Obama's saying that it was Romney saying and that's what really hurt let's bring callers 8030930. Jon and Rochester -- a fourth time. Based Stephen -- you know. 800 pound gorilla in the room might think is. In part the media bias I heard some of the exit polls on Tuesday. And people were saying that they were going for Obama because. Of the big they still blame bush or what Obama had -- content. In them you know. To me this an example media bias. There was no Internet could be it Republicans fault was certain extent in that they didn't bring out situation. Where the Democrats took control. Well of both houses in January 2000. Six months later we started going into recession and of course we dropped off the cleanup under a democratically controlled. Packers in this issue was never brought up by the Republicans they have much in -- course of the mainstream media left alone till then -- and other things. Democrat and chronicle of very biased newspapers here in Rochester. Just similar to the ball goes in New York Times whoever. The last. Three out of four days. Before the election. Now one word was mentioned -- dancing. Not putting in the work and -- the media bias in this country there is -- -- that exists. The Republicans are up against -- nicely I think the Republicans. Should start attack -- the media in this country in it and just like immediate tax the -- But but John that this is an entire another discussion we need to have on a different program you look at what Candy Crowley did and immediately people said. She overstepped her bounds I really think that once the media starts. Driving an agenda on either side. And they crawl out on a limb that's gonna get sawed off and they're gonna fall to the ground and it will hurt. Now if the argument is that these candidates didn't raise the right issues if the Republican side didn't respond properly to Ben -- or pushed -- -- out there. That's an argument that I think we can raise. I'm not always sure it's the media's job to raise either side of those issues. I'd I don't accept the media bias I do -- and I gophers what were you when you have when you're -- Firefox. Have you and when you have rush limbo you have I mean there's plenty of media outlets and and let's face it. That the we -- off the fiscal cliff and into recession under George Bush. We fought the two wars had a huge deficit had huge spending. Under George Bush he give the biggest Medicaid. Be the biggest amount of money since Lyndon Johnson. Yet he you know was doing tax cuts. So why would people forget that Steve or why -- people forget that and that the Republicans or Mitch McConnell says we have one thing we wanna do you might have had both houses. What we have one thing we wanted to we wanna make them one -- went in and they refused a vote for anything. When -- don't want Biggio overall vote massively big capital and nick playing with Republican Party chair told him once and this was to me very insightful he says. Yes Republicans have talk radio but Democrats have the Internet daily costs and talking points memo sadder -- when you look at them. -- you -- really know -- he -- the media -- it TTE is a in a equal opportunity. Abuser. Are they will go after the bill somewhat to turn down they go after bolt when both sides walk away feeling the media is that. You know hasn't been fair nobody thinks the media is -- how come out and let's. Let's specify here we're talking at the mainstream media what used to be called seven sisters CBS NBC ABC the New York Times in -- post. And then and the one point time and Newsweek magazine those were referred to -- seven sisters -- pretty much spoke in use and and spotlight on anymore. What was -- about the -- Steve is that. They can be usually there by societal it's very subtle wasn't in this Obama campaign it came out but normally here's how it works. I think I'm a pretty well read conservative I know the most powerful conservative arguments are and with the best spokespeople. Spokespersons are to make them. Very seldom do you see when the when the media covers the conservative issue. Putting the strongest argument forward advance by the strongest spokesperson. Usually rob -- bureau cal musician we get this B list people that that's one thing secondly the difference is what we call the drumbeat. They will cover story that's anti Democrat. But it's usually on page a seven ports in the middle of a nightly newscasts as opposed to a Republican issue which you get the drumbeat it leads every newscast its front page above fold. It's every radio station at the blog. You don't get that in this thing Gaza that was a classic example although I will say. I don't think it would remain but look what that. However a second here he's doing real quick the problem is when we came when we slide one of our breaks late okay -- I'm really long and the callers hang out all right if everybody hangs there. We're all -- -- that he can make a quick point I was just gonna -- I'd rather take a little more time on that -- -- -- I wanna talk about the Gaza will be all right we'll do that when we get back we'll take more calls we'll talk about Ben -- Steve pigeon is here Carlo calabrese is here. And I promise you'll will go rapid fire this next hour with all the phone calls. 803 and 930 if you're on hold stay right there more hardline on news radio 9:30 AM and one of seven point seven FM -- yen. It's not like I'm ready at 9:30 AM 107 point seven FM WBBM. Boy am glad I -- have these guys for the full two hours much to talk about I promise you if you're on hold stay right there after the newscast we will definitely get to the calls. They both pledged to try and do rapid fire we're not currently on hold too much longer but Steve before the break you said you want to address when -- got. I just think first -- -- got overly politicized for me the international -- -- if you look back every president has handles with a B nine elevenths cobalt powers under Reagan. And -- looking back yet something could have been done different we might have been able stoppage but they would let the investigation ago before anybody made wild charges wild charges were made on this and I think what -- -- was that it. Was politicized more than it needed and so you're arguing that the media didn't pick them up because they were stories yes absolutely. Wild charge was at this whole thing was a result of video on the Internet nobody saw. That came from the president there was twenty riots going on in twenty different cities it is that it's quite clear people forget -- there were in twenty cities there were embassy things happening because of that that he. So why -- and somebody that they that in the course the CIA is -- Al clearly said this was planned an -- -- but by a homicide happened they knew Carl I know the next day they knew the next -- the moment it happened it but. What probably happened and what will come out was that. The thing started. As the right over the video and then they took a step Qaeda took advantage of the fact it was happening there were 24 Arab cities where there were riots in front of American embassy. The same -- the vehicle here's what happened. But once that. Statement was made for weeks he senses you and best route all five talk shows on Sundays it's the video that's discredited very early in the scenario. And it continues now -- I was I was saying. Where is the next generation Woodward and Bernstein here if this were Republican believe me this is a Pulitzer Prize winning to be won by some enterprise they -- nine elevenths. Everybody on 9/11 when in August Busch gets the things saying they're gonna look -- -- -- I mean we get there should not publicize that they don't -- the fact of the matter is this was this was just hanging -- -- for some enterprising investigative report and it was snapped it up. And quite clear and one more thing that. We can talk Steve not to talk about all day and argue about is the media buys it doesn't matter which speak things -- what I think. The fact is 68% the American people believe it is. That's reality and it's because they prove it day in and day out I addressed the security and I personally think it's biased though you're way. I I I think they do well 68% are not saying it's biased toward the Democrats well. Fine but let let's admit that it hit supply is and I wish they would just admit it and let's get beyond it because this this idea that all -- there there there up on the hill and they are completely fair and -- it says we will -- and media bias I promise we're gonna take the calls were gonna break -- -- more with Karl Steve -- -- it's news radio 9:30 AM. One of seven point seven FM WB -- It's time to talk politics it's hard line on news radio nine. -- be here now here's W. And in studio with Carlo calabrese Republican analyst and former Erie county democratic -- party chair Steve pigeon. A Republican strategist who was excuse me democratic strategist sorry about that. -- I -- I've been called worse -- Yeah I wish her audience that is a look at his I mean. I think there's an awful lot of things but that was -- and democratic strategist who -- -- down in Florida. Let's again get me out of -- let's go to the phones -- will kick it off and do a lot of phone calls here 8030930. Polly entitle one you've been waiting awhile thanks for hanging on -- Yes I heard -- a paper I think I think the media and made to different from the election I think there's been not -- in the mainstream media to be out of college propaganda. And the difference between mainstream media and talk radio it's like the difference between McDonald's and your mom and pop stores and my proof is. My daughter attended the pro -- march this year. And the next day I did I watched all the different -- news network the national news ABC. On CBS NBC that within a whisper and it was about 500 million. Marchers marching in Washington DC and many of me out and it wasn't even a whisper about it in the naturalness. I I have never heard anyone describe the way you just did the difference between McDonald's and the mom and pop stores elaborate. Well people with so many people as they are you gonna Rush Limbaugh might catch on Hannity -- talk radio but the you can act when you have a -- -- mainstream media. Being -- one person's -- you're being very. I Democrats I don't and it's just there's a huge difference in how many people turn to reiterate I mean that's. Who pot brownies for the rich and Obama's for the poor. And in the middle class and it did state that likes to where they get that idea from. All right maybe maybe from that perhaps he -- Well. I just I feel strongly that the mainstream -- very very biased they could have made a big difference and I think we need that people need to call out and then demand more accountability. From our news outlets. I I think both these guys would agree it's a question of which biased they think the media has you know. Apologies are all saying about the media the media can't tell you what to think that they can tell you what to think about the power of the media especially mainstream media is the power repetition. And you know talk radio tends to speak to its own base its its preaching that the -- to the converted. Was the mainstream media hits that you know the folks are kind of in the middle there watching the nightly news the reading their paper and that ability to constantly what I called earlier but drumbeat. Is what really is an issue now the fact of the matter is if it exists I don't see it changing in the next. Election cycle or beyond Republicans are gonna have to learn to deal with -- and communicate more effectively -- get around it and above and Steve you made. Dressing pointer when the brakes were talking about the local races for example -- Chris Collins capping local congressional race. You said that in some cases. If this was a different media market. That would have played out differently because things like the negative ads would have been challenged differently by the media or would not have -- pointed out to be wrong so universally. In the media explain what you meant by recap what we were saying well break there I think often. And smaller markets like buffalo. If you put a commercial on that. Might be persuasive just in the commercial. But is not factually accurate you can get away with a bigger markets and small market like buffalo. Once the local outlets in the newspaper come on say this was false most voters know that. So I I think that a lot of times what happens in these these democratic and Republican congressional campaign committees often have come in and it's not done well I remember the Brian Higgins race there was a commercial that these triple C ran that that I think helping to Naples. Because they don't know this and they don't do as well on the smaller and that -- you're saying better in the smaller markets. And the bigger markets rather where will be ignored by all the media rights. Because they're focused on -- even -- does not ignored it there's there's such big markets that nobody has a dominant slice of that media yet you know -- -- like the Buffalo News. Is that they even three TV stations when rice -- of the TV stations basically that report -- the Buffalo News wrote that day so they have more influence over them. Over the media at buffalo go ahead your next. -- candidates through our blood on her show today at least yeah I've been a lot of little right and still it always will be paid. I've made some notes to myself and one good thing about it. I don't -- terribly. And I have a friend who is opposing views but we both agreed Taiwan saying. -- -- -- It is true -- I think your opinion of that food it's not been manipulation attitude and expects that number one. Number two. You mentioned in -- -- What about weapons of mass destruction. Towards market -- protect our argument until the cadets. Money Citizens United. And it didn't put Nevada put partisan way to content from good amount of money and power. Are intact. Promoting there's I -- points of view I would stick true. What could they were younger people today they have so many ways of finding out the boot. Yeah I mean what I don't even own a computer put a dual monitor different experts in different radio stations. And I am retired I think I can afford big time but they're quote police. Stop manipulating -- All right Carla sighs shaking your head when he. Yeah I mean how. How long are we gonna debate the Bush Administration he's gone. We cut four years than ever before but -- come on I don't know -- -- -- you can't you can't the same people criticizing being -- the -- of them when they're the ones that so there's weapons of mass destruction. And we need to go in there it was a failed policy and now what's our biggest problem are ran. And why did that happen because of the failed to the war in Iraq I can show us why Iran becomes that the operator that they -- the Middle East. Because of what we did in Iraq who didn't do an arena that was support that -- years ago when the president states well when we're sitting in a war Iraq Iran is that it is is that more people bigger geography. What we want to we do they don't -- seriously because they don't respect as well let me say -- I can show -- this caller. Video clips of every major Democrat back. During net net the grant program to the doctorate every single financial Ted Kennedy and you can't Sean I can't -- Kerry Kennedy and I can't show Barack Obama I can show I can show across the board they all bought he he would. No weapons of because they were told by Colin Powell and by the CIA that they existed and so did the Russians. And the Israelis and the French and the British intelligent why -- they didn't support they also let's do diplomacy first let's let the UN does that mean diplomacy. This guy bush pulled the trigger in a war we shouldn't have been in where we lost 5000 lives we lost treasure we empowered Iran. Week we help with the deficit it was a disaster. You can't just say. That's the past but there's still living to the -- what I will say I'm a bad decisions that George Bush made I will say this and you. Mobile might not a idea really if if Iran becomes a. And even somewhat stable democracy over the next twenty years. His policy decisions look much differently than they do today when we're still feeling the pain of the losses if you this could be a very interesting dynamic within the Middle East going forward. The -- correct guy is as are ready it just basically become a practicing now for a so maybe in twenty years we can talk again but right now that I think most. Independent observers the invasion made no sense and worse than that having no plan for after the invasion that I would having -- for every survey that was disaster -- -- the miscalculation. On the insurgency and not having enough people on the ground was was as bad mistake is the first bush made -- not going -- taking out Saddam Hussein when he quit after Kuwait real briefly caller spoke of Citizens United. Is this -- -- this this spot is this the decision on which both Republicans and Democrats can agree. Bad decision war are are you vote in favor of the spending that went on under what the Supreme Court that place. I don't believe I sacrificed my First Amendment free speech rights like the other together with -- people like mine. To involve myself in politics and that's what that's what the decision basically set. So -- This is this is under on board with Citizens United and all of practicality of that decision is that it allows. Just an influx of money that is. That you don't know where it's coming from. I would have less of a problem. If they if if these 501 -- forest people weren't able behind behind these issue education plans. That are really issue educationally -- They're really -- saying vote you know to supporting one candidate over the other I could buy your argument if we had disclosure almost -- once he force all right Tom and buffalo next if you wanted to open up from the county races to go ahead. Here of course it's funny because in -- transparency and Iceland putt well as an -- can -- Republican and sort of think. Secret affairs focused this election we would not -- -- -- the seats we give it up you know thinking. -- right now that was not -- -- -- any Republican going that was I have a it was a Democrat right now to talk over from the -- that just lost all of the three -- talk talk a little bit about your involvement in some of the local races so you're you're an unabashed backroom -- -- -- in the right in the senate race that put markers -- deacon in my room and I think what you would have seen what happened there -- see what went. The reason parties come together what leaders should do. Is try to get rid of the factionalism. In what we had which -- wanna it was a moderate. Democrat who was able to get the conservative line who at a suburban base. And would have had the working families line in with three lines he also -- she was targeted by the senate Democrats that they were gonna on the race. Now the other faction goes out just because they don't like the year -- -- or whatever ten year old fights and what they do. It and I know it's awful but -- is. In what they don't know what that was but that's okay go ahead and call that -- anyway so what they do that is they get a primary now of course once you've had a conservative line it's pretty hard to win a primary. And what what you would have seen a one on one race that was funded. That race in a presidential year it was a winnable race also I know that the conservatives had said that if the Democrats endorse wanted to they would have endorsed shanks for controller right now upon -- Shaw shank down everybody's -- Who nice guy but doesn't come across no real skills as a candidate no base no particular qualifications for the job. No ability to raise money doesn't come across on TV. Was not a strong candidate but with that conservative line if they would have done something called compromise which is how you stop wars between factions. They -- won them both seats and if there wasn't that you know that the governor wanted to chairman that wasn't tied to this faction the marijuana chairman that wasn't -- to distinction. They snub the governor sale while. Dennis ward in the haters that wanna just. Have ten year old flights all while we beat the governor but what do they do they're just not at the table with the governor. We have a real war in the middle of an October. Brace and maybe we could of pulled up that extra half a point for fertility. Vocal. So what you have is it's really time for the Democrats to stop fighting ten and fifteen year old war -- -- Steve pigeon did this in nineteen you know 96. I mean it's. It's foolish in the Democrats are gonna continue to lose in this county until both sides come in and say. Now I supported mark volunteers and I met with him one on one and said okay I'm gonna help you. But what are we gonna end this war and he told me you know what I'm about policy not politics. Then he goes in and keeps or going single handedly. By snubbing the governor by getting the primary by picking shaking felt so you know what it takes two sides to make up. -- and until that happens Republicans are gonna take advantage. This time we're gonna stick to break -- early enough we don't have to wait with all those calls were gonna do it now more with Steve pigeon after this Carlo calabrese also here. It's hard line -- news radio 9:30 AM one of seven point seven FM WV. It's hard line on news radio 9:30 AM 107 point seven FM WB and this date -- GOP analyst Carlo calabrese is here. Former Democratic Party chair Steve pigeon is here Steve of course was a running a team of lawyers. Down in Florida on behalf of the Obama campaign let's now bring in Amelio -- -- Amelio was a Republican elections attorney. With the Erie county Republican Party he was doing some of the same things that Steve was in Florida. But he was doing them out in Ohio on behalf of the Romney campaign and so we thought there would be good to bring him into the discussion and chat a little bit about Ohio at this point. If you are on hold by the way I promise we will get you. -- we we've got all the calls stacked up we know how long you've been there. And we'll get you all but Amelio has some interest -- things to say. Talking about what thanks for being here sir by the way glad you're here. Talk to me about what you were doing in Ohio and in the end what you ended up seeing in terms of the way that particular state went. Sure well quote what I was there to do with that was part of a support group of attorneys are about forty of us. And -- what what are your outlook to do list to. Identify. Voting irregularity issues and to get closer to the Election Day our jabs were a little bit more. Important. We're a little bit busier I got there a week before the election. And -- one of these early voting states. -- we had a lot of issues -- long lines and voting -- people who are not being allowed to vote. People who were pretty they're provided provisional ballots. Because that could not establish residency. An Ohio is one of the few states in our country where you need to provide. Premier filed formal identification. And those that want to identification can be anything from driver's license to a utility -- to a paycheck. So in the event that people and hand those herbal here viable forms of identification. They're given provisional ballots -- through most of our focus. Was. The validity of the provisional ballots. And how how did you do that what you just make sure these people in fact were eligible to vote. What we had was it was a pretty intense operation where we -- deployed observers. Lawyers in Ohio are shown to every polling place and that competitive districts. I myself couldn't go because it'd be a resident of the state of Ohio. Yeah actually yeah actually deploy you in particular voting precinct or active they wrote it. Attorney. Monitoring several different precincts. And these observers who are at the different -- hole locations contact us. Indicating that there were issues. And then we would research and respond to them is that because. In some parts of Ohio they're giving away provisional ballots. I've been checking identification. Without even checking registration. Or residency requirements. In other parts of the state they are very very strict. In fact this really torturing a lot to. Prevent people from getting about so. We had issues at both ends of the spectrum and I'd like to think we were able to address them. Pretty thoroughly and fairly. Do you think the issues on one end of the spectrum or or or the other. Made the difference in the way Ohio ultimately turned out. I really don't come what I think that I. Observe -- was down there is that deal the Romney campaign identified. One particular kind what they needed to do extremely well. And it was Hamilton County which includes sessions and then but they also decide. Other counties. Strong Republican. Red counties and they allocated unidentified a certain percentage. A Republican turnout -- that they need to yeah. In the final analysis some of those hard red counties they turn out in that match their internal percentage. So what you was a lot of -- counties. That churning out enough Republican votes. And in blue are counties. They were able to turn out there so I honestly do not believe that. Legal irregularities. Caused to -- to go one way or the other I think that. One other -- scene and an incumbent president is you have four years to establish. An infrastructure in the battleground states. Putting people on the ground almost immediately after he was elected careers. Whereas governor Romney. And off. Primary challenges. And use a lot of resources to win primaries. When. The Romney campaign admitted to me they were only in Ohio for the last eight months. All right -- I need to poppy on hold we'll pick it up after the news -- and more discussion with other phone calls to its hardline on news radio 9:30 AM one of seven point seven FM. WB and hardline on news radio 9:30 AM 107 point seven FM WVU and we are talking. About this past weekend all the elections. One of the things I can tell you about Ohio is that what helped Obama. Was the labor the UAW. The fact that the auto bailout really did work for the president. In states like Michigan and Ohio and quite frankly that put more of the top. That's professor Bruce risky from buffalo state college part of his day after analysis here on news radio 930 WB and on the line with us now Amelio -- -- of well an attorney with the Republican Party he was on the ground in Ohio we're talking a little bit about turn around some of the issues he saw there. A would you agree it was a matter Amelio of just having more democratic groups on the ground pushing for their side the Republicans have. Not quite sure I would agree with this I mean if if you look at the operation of the Republican Party and it. It was a pretty impressive operation I intend to do it to -- One in Columbus someone in Cincinnati. And the turn out for governor Romney who has just master. And that they were not enough I don't groups out there other than labor groups on the Republican side. But I think look at the end of the game because I was only lost by about a 100000 votes. -- -- -- a lot polonium is state that hit millions and knowing devotes. It's really a small percentage. But I think it in the that they would really matter what the president at a longer time and Ohio put together an infrastructure. And it support system and governor Romney in Portland didn't have the kind of do that. And turning out the vote is crucial we don't have that organization that are destined and that person on this. President Obama. But but Obama -- do but MM Obama did do better with blue collar white voters in Ohio than just about anywhere else and I think the professor was dead on that I think it's because of the auto bailout that he was able -- and I'll. Amelio just a common that the right -- part of it was time. And that of course has long been in -- but -- I've been reading that lead the Obama street workers actually -- -- it's with. I don't -- column that Karl. I -- workers. Five bodies that would be another Doug Mallory didn't I'm I don't like I should let the record Joseph the W word I use and workers. They had. I -- with micro targeted messages by household what message will work in the and a houseful. If you know if that's true that has taken this ground game to a different level that the all around him. Brownie did have some of them they are the things are doing a micro targeting which I'm I'm I'm a put itself in two races across the country. The micro targeting is bringing politics to a to a higher level we used to have to you know use the when I started the you know the the dial phones and you know -- -- -- he didn't even have -- a prime listening directories. It's become very sophisticated although Romney had a lot of this has skated to just not as many. Offices paid staff or volunteers -- but the bigger question you prepare you -- time on the break is white and Romney received. -- both the McCain I think three million fewer vote -- -- person -- to really analyze that guy and really you have blessed we're here we're gonna have to move on to other calls here. Well I think that. Oh is not lost. I know a lot of people are urging the Republican Party to show their core philosophy and beliefs I don't think we're at that level yet. I think he still saw a lot of energy in Ohio. I think governor Romney was. -- fortunate -- to a lot of circumstances being honored to be -- controllable. The operations there at the ideas that are there I think so they need to be greater -- investment in infrastructure in states and technology. All right very good that's Amelio -- -- about an attorney with the Republican Party locally he was on the ground in Ohio. Let's -- wind up the program here and get rid of these calls thank you so much you've been on hold waiting we'll get you right now I promised. Steve pigeon is here democratic consultant GOP analyst Carlo calabrese is here back to the calls John and if you thanks so much waiting so long it's your turn now. Actually I'm in south buffalo and my friend has already called and we do disagree but at least we can agree batteries that Colin mr. Perry can. Is it keeps it to the a micro. You may become a Mitch McConnell. All we want to Barack Obama to be a one term that's been repeated for the last four years. Could you please tell us what Harry Reid said just before the election he would not gonna work with. The president you know this is we just do this. Week after week. -- wiping both sides say this they don't want the other side to succeed because that's who they are Steve. I think we do have a problem in this country that the that the extremism of all parties are in congress. And actually moderates in both parties have been losing primaries so is who we really have a challenge in this country. To get the extremes of all parties to be able to look for common ground and be able to compromise. Neither side is gonna get there were a 100% and I think to move forward. We're gonna need some -- some of the what they call the grand -- this is the process flawed in that in order to get your nomination the party you have to be. A little more extreme and then you have to run the center in the general. I I think is that probably has served our country well in many ways but I think what we've missed is that there. There's such taxes that tech city in this. Hatred between the two sides in the congressional house they're used to be people that could come and make in the middle. And be able to work things out even not necessarily compromise doesn't mean that you you're hurting your core values. But finding ways to move the ball forward and I think that we've lost some of that the last decade a lot of it probably does have to do. You know with the media intensity to 24/7. That -- talk about the differences between the two parties in both sides at the -- of the differences are rather than trying to come to the metal. Karl yeah it's not news that both parties in the primary process have completed their base and for the last. And -- decades. That means it Democrats during primaries tend to go a little bit further -- and left and Republicans ghosts and right and then they rush back to the middle that's not new. What is those disputes that I but it means you have a lot of people saying that Ronnie wasn't conservative enough now. That's correct but you know who comes on the election would they go. -- would do they go and in all they're not gonna author -- lost a lot of blue collar voters who lost a lot of women. Because he was seen as too too far right and that would vote for another Republican -- but but this race I still believe this is a center right. Country and with the right messenger with the right messaging in the right use of words it's a very powerful argument especially in Europe. With a sixteen trillion dollar deficit time bomb that's ticking away. The problem with that though -- as your your you know you follow this and you look at all the numbers. In four more years the only states that are going to be maybe swing states are red may be turning -- like in Georgia. Where the Latino votes coming in in that the past few states would that now -- we've seen. That a lot of things that used to be swinger becoming reliably Blue States so as far as the electoral map. The Republicans have quite a challenge. Yet it seems that way today. The beauty of American politics is it seems they can change very good heroically and what I agreed to the Republicans now have to look at how the demographic map is changing. And where the winning messages are and then the -- those winning messages to those constituencies to get 50% plus more Tina and Orchard Park go ahead it's your turn now. -- -- -- You know I was listening I've been listening all morning and I can -- you know the arguments about what about what bush did. And let down Obama did this in this big -- but when I mean just to know I think consequences. Now I came into I'm socially I'm independent and the conservatives basically McCain predetermined. And so yeah I think -- made mistakes and sickened people are talking about that. Obama made mistakes too we won't go into that -- when they were campaigning. At this said how they looked so. That I think it's just to watch the people -- insisted -- social issues that voted for Obama present which he was interest to interest it can mean wasn't it great. So another thing about Iraq bush and that was -- weapons of mass destruction. And be and I see lists. Obama. Group. Welcome to slash two as one of the most disliked hated. So -- present I don't think that'll happen even if we find out. That's something went wrong we've been testing and from what I can see there's more to this story but what -- the Democrats -- talking about so. The next that I don't think is as I can get America needs a Robin and I are beginning to think. Don't want another -- bound mental technique is to make excuses for his failures. America needs -- what are you just say Tina. Don't need -- a a Robin and everybody rabbit and so I'm beginning to think that we should say that you. Probably in what do what do you mean we're losing you there. Yeah -- -- and -- -- -- say listen you do something and you say this it was reality. So instead of us going in waiting now because I do believe -- unless we change the democratic. And I do think it's very few Hispanics. And the black community do not vote for Republicans and I -- to be changed. But also we -- not continue. Not being able to ever put -- Republican and or an independent. Because. It's it's so tight. So if Obama wants obviously money and he wants to tax the rich maybe it's time for us just say okay. Like to -- that I'm sick of hearing about how we're trying to are we dismantled. This presidency. Tell someone he wants he wants to do that to people. Check them do those stated I've read -- -- -- people I don't be shocked when they see that things prepared taxes and then there. All right Tim thanks for that they don't realize there's a number gonna try to squeeze is one or two more in before we go here. Diane in buffalo it's your turn now. You know President Obama. All he wants the tax it was a little more than pleased to say he -- congress relentlessly isn't the public I don't like I do with congress over the next four years. I'm -- here on the windows. That it doesn't wanna tax the rich because after the must not distant although it would affect job -- and the business owners. Why don't they just -- the other half that I and that's -- -- that the owner of the election. All right let's get Karl on -- on going to what you week but the new book why are you taxing them if you're taxing. 50% of the so called rich sure it's small business owners to close the deficit that's a pipe dream is just not enough of them we have a spending problem we brought in forty is designed both Carl we spend. Enough for the problems of modern day -- is standing raise revenue now. We raise enough revenue. Entitlements and to what extent and you need to raise borrowing forty cents on every dollar we spend no families he's sure Jesus -- -- low rental business could ever survive under that model and government -- well we also that he -- got to come we also need to get we need to get that the economy moving. So -- definitely I do this is -- time to spend when that went in this is a good time to -- when the interest rate is nearly 0% -- on the short term. We probably need some stimulus to get jobs moving. And then in the long term we have that. Definitely have to look at defense and entitlements and and and attack their deficits that we need to be a combination. You need to raise revenue and you need to cut spending stimulus and why -- raise revenue with people that are are billionaires or make -- and a million dollars in -- not people don't smoke that is not a matter that hedge. They're not getting -- -- -- about -- you're talking about a six for 700 billion years old got a dollar and now you're talking about eighty billion a year by the government's -- numbers listen we got to sixteen trillion dollars under deficit we get a sixteen trillion dollar deficit that we're financing -- extremely historically low interest rates if interest rates go back even 45%. This country is sitting at a time bomb and that's the message I think going forward in future elections economic. And spending and the role of government if you got -- economy growing. Which you can do -- through short term spending in the economy growing -- gonna raise revenue. That is what Bill Clinton did you know Clinton raise revenue. Cut spending and get the economy -- history shows that it's permanent. Across the board cuts in tax rate we had a surplus they felt confident they'll get a carpet capital gains he cut the capital gains rate which it's sort revenue to government. It works it works Republican or Democrat this class warfare is a prescription for disaster -- second this is debate that I know I'm not suggesting class warfare -- -- we steady -- Paul -- it's not all Mike I don't know Obama has its sliced and -- the electorate along class lines for at Florida and I don't know what I don't know what Obama campaign you'll watch it. -- -- Jason I don't know which one you're watching your putting words -- -- my expectations of a quicker and poppy back at home we're gonna take a break we'll come back I promise we will get you. 9:30 AM closing moments with Steve -- Carlo calabrese. As promised Jason silver creek let's squeeze you in here go ahead. Real quick out right Ronnie -- because the Republican Party -- the libertarian wing. They were the originators of the Tea Party and they act collapse about a Republican Party and anybody who voted around on a lot of recent people enrolling in a Republican Party voted. Just enrolled just to vote for up on primary in all it around it and you'll. Would appoint Ron Paul -- -- -- and he won a landslide and also for your tax questions. Now one penny of any of its income tax goal is our government our government needs to print its own money constitutionally and now our -- of interest from central bankers and that's on the -- that problem. All right -- side and on your -- on the -- Jason's not something I don't I certainly agree about the apartment Ron Paul but I do believe a lot of the libertarian. Philosophy. Is something new -- -- look at especially in the economic it role in the role of government in in in terms of how intrusive it is lights on I think there's some of these issues so we're talking about what Republicans need to look at let's look down the road we'll talk about -- both parties. What you see happening 2016. Do the Republicans run Chris Christie do they run them Marco Rubio. What UC Karl in terms of what they have to do. With their candidate the next time around quietly with -- I cease them. A very deep bench -- whole bunch of governors Republicans now control thirty steak house and I just make a list you know real quick your ego. Nikki Haley. Bobby Jindal Susanna Martinez -- pants Scott Walker John -- Bob McDonnell. Brian Sandoval Chris Christie former governor Mitch Mitchell Markel rubio. These are all folks is most of -- governors who have instituted. Real progressive conservatism successful conservatism in the states are gonna have records show works and to be taken initial so if you're talking governors do we CA 2016. Chris Christie verses. I answered to add to all of those prisoners got some problems is gonna have to these -- are -- to -- All of those names is governor Andrew Cuomo right now is the most popular governor in the country of when you look at all of the the states. And I'll tell you I traveled all over the country the last two years ago about campaign everywhere I ago whether it was Iowa New Hampshire. Florida California. In the west when people heard I was from New York they asked about Andrew Cuomo. So I think Andrew Cuomo probably is the future Democratic Party in the country obviously. Hillary Clinton has said that you know she's going into retirement if she changed her mind she obviously. Would be a player in this but she's saying that you know -- -- public days are over and that that she's going to retire so we'll see. All right so so you think it's. -- to -- right of first refusal but beyond that well that would that would be good all right what about on the Republican side let's throw Jeb Bush and to make that we -- Clinton bush again. Good or anything is possible politics you never say never Jeb Bush very articulate spokesman for conservatism instituted some marbles reforms are also very good with the Hispanics -- imperative absolutely so -- -- I -- we've -- -- deep -- and we'll see what -- I guarantee -- this the Republicans -- -- drastically change their primary -- and how they -- candidates. They made a lot of mistakes as last time I don't think you'll see those repeated. All right guys this was a lot of fun. Thank you under same here this was a lot of fun and if if you -- -- if you can get a chance hero in thrown up online at WB and a count. Now -- like the sort of things stay with us right around the corner Meet the -- does the exact same thing different -- of course is David Gregory standing by from NBC. This is headline news radio 9:30 AM and one of seven point seven FM WB yen.